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El hidalgo
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quote:
Originally posted by War4ever
Well 16 civs eh? I suppose i should be jumping for joy! I doubt i will be though. Civ2 as it stands doesn't allow the ai to build properly. The ai has no concept of expansion. Putting 16 civs on a map as Steve Clark suggests is just ludicrous. As he has done the math, there is no way the ai will expand properly if they stay with the current AI expansion. |
Well, to me this just goes to show that's it's possible to have mediocre AI with even as few as 7 civs. It doesn't go to show that it isn't possible to have a great AI with 7 civs, or even more. You wouldn't be in favor of having fewer than 7 civs at once, would you? Yet if 7 had mediocre AI, maybe 3 would have great AI, by this line of reasoning...
quote:
Civs within close proximity will vanish ala the Egyptians vs the Carthaginians on the World Map. While 16 civs sounds neat..... and believe me it does, i seriously hope that the AI is significantly more advanced than the current civ2 model is. |
Maybe they will vanish, maybe not. The Carthaginians did vanish pretty early on in real life. That's how it goes. But it sounds like from everything I've read that war will not necessarily be the most profitable strategy. So maybe both can survive and gain by trade and diplomacy.
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Oh and anyone listening..... for MP can you please give us small random maps which aren't full of mountains......... nor shaped like something under a petri dish from biology class |
I have read that the random map generator will be much better this time. Good news, I may actually use it then!
quote:
I want more civs...... but not at the cost of half of them dying off by 2000BC |
Well, if you had 16, I would point out even if half died you'd still have one more than in Civ2...
For me this is great news. I also like how it says "Civ 3 will feature 16 civs out of the box," so obviously it will be fairly easy to add new civs, at least as easy, I hope, as it was in Civ2. Good news for those of us who want to rule the Mali! But still this is all really just speculation -- when we got upset at news that there would only be 7 (or 8) civs, it turned out that was just speculation (maybe). So until I hear something from Firaxis I'm not going to get too excited one way or the other.  But I will tell you, Firaxis, if you at least double the number of civs you can play at once, I'll at least double the amount I'm willing to pay! 
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Jarouik
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Helsinki, Finland, EU
Dec 2000
time: 07:14
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Although I wouldn't rejoice until Firaxis officially announces that 16 really is the maximum number of civs in a single game, apparently Firaxis are at least reconsidering the issue, which is good news indeed.
Although I personally could make do with only 7 or 8 civs at a time, as I said earlier, including all 16 in a single game makes perfect sense and provides for more options for large maps and scenarios. Since virtually everybody previously criticized the absolute 7-civ-limit, I find it odd, to say the least, to have so many people now being against even the option of having 16 civs! Bear in mind that this option in no way means you will have to play with all 16, and indeed, I believe in most games I would choose something between five and ten civs to play with, for the aforementioned reason of small and medium maps getting too crowded.
I think the default number of civs should still be around seven, with more civs simultaneously in game only if explicitly selected, as 16 civilizations make the game much more complicated, for the beginners at least. However, there are also advantages to having more civs: as previously stated, on large maps having more AI civs certainly makes the game more challenging, as long as the AI is better at expansion than the one in Civ 2, since having large swathes of unused land just to be colonized by the human player tends to unbalance the game.
As regards the fact that this would make the computer civs less unique, I doubt that, since in Civ 3 each of the 16 civs have a unique unit and, I believe, somewhat different AI settings to begin with. If anything, I think it brings more realism and variety to the game, since instead of facing a couple of huge empires with lots of space around them, you get some huge AI empires neighboured by smaller AI states, with less unpopulated space. In addition, I like the idea that in a single game you can be sure that you will eventually have to face all of the 15 other civilizations, including e.g. both the perfectionist Babylonians and the aggressive Zulus at the same time.
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Jarouik
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Helsinki, Finland, EU
Dec 2000
time: 07:14
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quote:
Originally posted by Grumbold
I was purely wondering whether the system will support 17+ civilisations (once custom ones are available) for those who want even more. They might code it so you to replace one of the default civs with your custom civ instead, resulting in an absolute limit of 16 players per game and requiring file adjustments each time you want to play a normal or custom game.
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I believe they have to set an absolute maximum (16, it seems) for the number of civs in a single game, if only for performance reasons and various gameplay and interface design issues (e.g. the circular foreign advisor screen mentioned in a recent preview). This does not preclude, however, that custom civilizations could be added without removing any of the existing ones; I fully expect Firaxis to build in an interface for selecting included civs when starting a new game if more than 16 civilizations have been defined in the game rules files.
An option for selecting the civilizations you want to play against might be needed anyway when playing with less than 16 civs; actually it could be done in a single screen which just lets you toggle each civilization on and off, with the maximum number of simultaneous civs being 16 no matter how many civs are in the list. Of course you could also just specify the number of civs from 3 to 16 and let the game randomly pick the civs included. (I just hope Firaxis will code it so that when it comes to the 16 original civs, a specific civ always has the same color dedicated to it (e.g. the Germans are always blue), so the colors won't switch from one game to next like they did in Civnet...)
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uh Clem
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Born in the US; damned if I know where I live now
Nov 1999
time: 23:14
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As noted, CTP allowed many more civs with some editing of a text file. Once you get used to it, it's the only way to go IMO. I don't think people should be forced to have that many, but it's a great option.
Keep in mind that with 16 civs, 3 or 4 won't survive the first few turns. They'll fall to either an agressive neighbor or the Barbs.
Early and mid-game empires are also more realistic. You can dominate your region or perhaps a continent at this stage, but not the globe, just as the Romans could dominate their world, but that world was only a small fraction of the earth's surface.
Global empires become possible with technological advances like faster transportation, etc, and that's when the big fish start swallowing up the smaller fish, and alliances become critical. Diplomacy is more interesting at this level.
As I said, I don't think you should HAVE to have that many, but I hope it's a possibility.
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08-06-2001 06:48
(always thought 7 aren't enough).
), look where you are. They'll find a way to complain about everything 
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