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vitolg
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Hi guys,
I need to talk to you as vitolg, not Vitolg Ha-Melech. I would also like to ask our Moderator to get involded in the discussion.
I have just caught what disturbed me during the latest game development. First I thought Fuzzball of Maya recent accusations in granting Gunpowder to Romans as a kind of game diplomacy. But after that I undertook an investigation, took up the turn archive and verified that the knowledge exchange was indeed carried out in turn 46, just as Fuzzball claims. If so, the problem lays in the real life, because I screamed - how did he know?! Fuzz, could you really explain - how?
My answer is simple: the only way allowed you to know what had occured between Romans and Hebrews was reading my game messages. Unfortunately, Activision, like any other computer company wants big money without too much efforts, yesterday. Therefore there is actually no security in the PBEM mode. If there's such a lazy among you who doesn't know yet (I don't believe) - reading next player's messages is the least cheat. Some openings-closings - and you get full access to everybody's cards.
You know, I'm new to PBEM. Apparently, I had not done my homework starting the game without getting full knowledge regarding what is legal / illegal. I never used any of those tricks, but now, when I know about the little cheat used by Fuzz at least, I'm not sure he or anybody have not used the big cheat, especially when my ship of the line was "accidentally" discovered and destroyed by Maya - though they did not show any intention to deploy at the same emplacement. Especially taking into account that Maya did not research Bureaucracy, seem not to establish any embassy, etc.
Fuzz and all, please excuse me for the suspicions. Lost of the ship could really be accidental. Anyway, I neither have no proof nor need any. Again, I don't know what is legal or illegal. I would appreciate any reference on previous discussions on such issues. Please understand me. My point is that any tricks should be allowed unless you cannot have a control mechanism. The game will not be less interesting in this case - on the contrary, it would be even more difficult, with probably more subtle strategy and even diplomacy. But now I'm feeling stupid with all that city walls I built, diplomats on the borders, etc. Please help to renew interest to the game. I'm looking forward to hear your opinions.
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vitolg
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Fuzzball,
the tactic you described is great but cannot explain why, when "calculating" the fact of the knowledge exchange immediately (!) after it had happened, you didn't even considered the Romans had discovered the tech by themselves. Or got it as a gift from any other nation besides Hebrews. If you were more careful in reacting, you'd not leave a chance for suspicions. Your fearless considerations are reasonable: me and DeVil are newbies at Apolyton, so there's a chance we don't know about all the cheat possibilities.
An interesting thing happened with that sea battle as well. Before I moved my SOL out of Jaffa I had carefully though out the whole situation, especially taking into account my suspicions having just arised. It would be much more clever to leave my brand new ship and two samurais inside the city and prepare for defense in the face of attacks from the sea. Instead, I left Jaffa with miserable phalanx inside and undertook a kind of provocation. Just like in chess, I forced you to make the only possible step - "discover" my ship with two samurais aboard near your coast at an absolutely hidden spot. All that - with all the possible and tempting damage your two stacked ship could quite safely do in my watters instead of going eastbound: destroy the rest of the nets, start bombarding cities, etc. (Don't tell me you were afraid to do so two turns ago bewaring of my cannons and ships. Now, after I rendered lifless my cities, you feel safe bombarding them, don't you?) You suddenly got feel so addicted to the East just because otherwise you could lose one of your cities. Why am I so sure? I'll reveal you a big secret: I cheated to get sure I'm not cheated. I was very happy to find out that neither no your unit except those SOLs could accidentally reveal my ship nor no your other unit was able to destroy it before being too late.
I have tired the audience, so let's go to the bottom line. None of those considerations can really prove anything. And there's no need to. We're, fortunately, not in a court, and we don't play for money. I'm not charging you in cheating, not angry at you and will be happy to play with you in other games. Because the only person deserving accusations is myself. My fault is though, starting PBEM, I took into account danger of cheating, I had not arranged my strategy according to it. I do believe the game can be interesting with cheating, maybee the most interesting challenge would be playing honestly suspecting everybody at the same time. Cheating can make the game look like chess. Though all the board is viewed, the life is not easier. But that requires a strategy, different from that I used to use in TNT. Therefore the purpose of all this boring speech is to explain why I'm forced to resing, ask Keygen to join me to another game - a new one or as a substitute.
I would like to thank you all and - see your later!  )
vitolg
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PatRussell
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Hi,
Blackice told me there was an opening in this game. Looks like vitolg's spot? Let me know if I'm in.
Pat
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vitolg
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Ok, Blackice.
Just wondering what decision a moderator can take and on what basis. In most cases cheat cannot be proven, can't it?. And has an idea of cheat legalization been ever discussed?
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Keygen
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Athens, Hellas
Jan 2000
time: 07:14
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OK, I didn't know there was a cheating issue here.
I was just informed from Vitolg that he wanted to drop out.
Since I have deleted all of the last 4-5 turns due to some problems with my connection I would ask if possible that both Fuzzball and Vitolg would send me the last 5 turns to costas_cmn@yahoo.com.
To keep the game moving in the meanwhile I would ask Devil to resend turn 61 to Nukeboy and me.
Vitolg will keep playing until I review the situation.
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vitolg
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Pat,
You would find that despite the fact Hebrews are experiencing some serious military problems caused by Mayan perfidy and unprovoked aggression there are no crucial troubles threating their civ. Some right decisions and proper strategy - and the mean Maya will get a painful lesson, especially if other nations will realize the coming to light threat to the entire world.
Keygen, I'll send the files ASAP. Do you realize it's spoken about more than 500K? Should I send them in a bunch?
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15-08-2001 03:04
thx.
Is this how everyone else in the game feels? If it is we can easily abort the whole thing. 
Perhaps we'll meet online one day and you can host a game without allowing me any saves, just to be sure of the way I play.... But , then again, maybe not.
But the hd threads come to mind. 
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