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inca911
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St. Paul, MN
Jan 2000
time: 05:12
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Thanks for the *bump* while I was away, Sten! Thanks for the upgrade info, Scouse Gits! Work has been very busy lately, so I haven't had time to post.
Here is my strategy for pre-Howitzer/pre-Bomber/pre-Spy assaults of cities with City Walls (and especially those on a river as well). Typically these cities are a big no-go unless you can diplomatically buy/break them. Civ expansion can often be hampered (until Spy/Howitzer) on some small map games by a well placed AI city that cannot be toppled. I typically put a good Vet defensive unit into a fortress on good terrain right next to the city, just so the AI throws away resources turn after turn trying to take the position until I can make a diplomatic assault. The best strategy I've found to deal with these cities is to build about 4-5 diplomats and send them all on the same turn to the city to perform industrial sabotage. If you send your dips on different turns, they often just sabotage the work in process for the city again and again. If you are patient and wait until you have several ready on the same turn, the results are often: Work in Process sabotaged, Temple destroyed, Marketplace destroyed, City Walls destroyed. I wish I knew if this was randomly determined or if there is some grading scale for city improvements. Hope this tiny diplomatic tidbit helps!
[This message has been edited by inca911 (edited February 17, 2000).]
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Field Marshal Klesh
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Klesh Marshal Field
Jan 2000
time: 00:12
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Ghengis Chris,
The info about terrain and stuff can be found on the Civ poster. Well, let me explain. I have MGE, and in it they gave me a sweet poster that gives me: the tech tree(complete with corresponding improvements), a list of all units(with the attack/def/move rates, firepower, obsolescence ect. And also a list of terrain types, results of mining, irrigation, roads, and engineer transformation. If you have MGE, you must have gotten this.
Beyond the ridicule of my buddies for being such a Civ fanatic, this poster is highly important. It takes mainstage at my desk, right in front of me at all times, which is invaluable.
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inca911
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St. Paul, MN
Jan 2000
time: 05:12
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Genghis Chris,
If you don't have the civ poster, let me know and I will post a distilled summary for general use.
To your specific question regarding roads: Roads increase trade on Plains, Grassland (and Grassland w/ Shield), and Desert.
Railroads, however, increase the output of multiple shield producing terrains (forests, mines, specials, etc), so if I have a choice of laying a road through varied terrain before Railroad is discovered, I choose the shield producers for when I lay tracks later on.
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Hoss
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Leominster, MA, USA
Feb 2000
time: 05:12
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Seeker,
As far as tribute goes, in the latest OCC game at least two people were successful in getting tribute from the aggressive militaristic Mongols, so it can happen. I've never had much luck with them, though. Perhaps they need to be given more techs than anyone in a regular game would be willing to part with before giving tribute.
Also, I've found that you get more and better tribute when you have just researched a non-military tech, or is that just my imagination?
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Peacemaker
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of The Columbus Boneheads
Mar 2000
time: 05:12
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Thanks for the gerat info inca.
I am new to civ(less than 3 months) and this thread is a great resource.
Keep up the good work.
------------------
Don't let the name fool you!!!
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inca911
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St. Paul, MN
Jan 2000
time: 05:12
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On Martial Law and Happiness:
Martial Law can be imposed under Anarchy, Despotism, Monarchy, and Communism. Each of the first three military units stationed in a city makes one unhappy citizen content, and this effect is doubled under Communism (so each unit makes two unhappy citizens content--very nice!).
Under Republic and Democracy, military units in the field that are not in a fortress within 3 spaces from a city you control also can cause unhappiness. For Republic, each roving unit beyond the first makes one citizen unhappy. For Democracy, every roving unit makes two citizens unhappy. This is why I build fortresses for my military before switching to Republic or Democracy.
Also, there are certain units that make people unhappy in their home city, regardless of where they are stationed. Under Republic, each Bomber, Stealth Bomber, Helicopter and Missle Units makes one citizen unhappy. This effect is doubled for Democracy.
One way to wage war under Republic and Democracy is to build Shakespeare's Theater. By reassigning your military units to Shakes before sending them in the field, you can ignore the unhappiness effects.
Now that I really understand the unhappiness factors, I can effectively prepare for government changes throughout the course of the game. I hope this answers your questions adequately!
Here is a repost of some comments on happiness made by Xin Yu that I believe are of great value. Thanks Xin!:
There are two levels of disorder control: global and local. Do the global first until most of your cities are OK, then deal with the few problematic ones.
First, choose the government. If most of your cities can grow using 'WLTKD' then obviously you should choose democracy or republic. The former is preferred since the courthouse gives one more happy citizen (crucial if you play deity and have a little bit more than a dozen of cities) and has no corruption. In other cases it's a trade-off between more trade vs. losing martial-law/free support and unhappiness due to troop out of city. Basically you add the increased trade for democracy/republic (adjusted for city improvements and trade route revenues), and compare with the total of lost martial-law luxuries (12 for commie, 6 for monarchy, 2xpopulation for fundy in deity), supporting shields (3 shields=6 taxs), and the out of city unhappiness (1 unhappy=2 luxuries). I would choose fundy or commie in the early ages but go to democracy when I can build superhighways. I may stay in commie/fundy if playing 2x production.
Second, decide the luxury rate. Since science rate can be set to zero (you use caravans to get sciences, hire one scientist), it's a split between tax and luxury.
Third, build improvements. For bigger cities, prefer marketplaces to temples, banks to cathedrals due to the following reason: a temple with mysticism keeps two citizens content, which is equivalent to 4 luxury. A marketplace increased both tax and luxury by 50%, so if you originally have 8 trade icons or more your total tax+luxury is better with a marketplace than with a temple. Same for banks vs. cathedrals. Of course wonders are different--they cost less and need no maintainence.
Fourth, use martial law.
Fifth, use Elvis if necessary.
Sixth, assign your troops properly in democracy/republic to reduce unhappyness. Two wonders can help: Shakespear and J.Bach. Actually the latter is better. If you have J. Bach, build a city on a mined hills and put a worker on another mined hills. Keep the city at size one, and with factories, hydro plant, and manufacturing plant it can support tons of units. It will not go riot due to JB's effect.
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Many times advisors suggest market before temples. Due to the above mentioned, I would suppose.
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There are times you will be advised to build market before being advised to build temple. I imagine a great deal due to the above mentioned.
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inca911
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St. Paul, MN
Jan 2000
time: 05:12
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More on Diplomats and Spies:
In addition to all of the standard bits of info regarding diplomats and spies, here are a few lesser known items.
1. Having a spy in a city does not change the bribery price for that city.
2. The square you bribe from does change the bribery price for a city. I did not try to quantify a difference in terms of terrain, proximity of the spy to enemy civs capital, or proximity of the spy to my own capital. But there are "discount" bribery squares (about 5-15 gold less out of a base bribery cost of 80 gold. I'm thinking it is a proximity factor of my spy to my capital, but don't have enough time right now to pin it down precisely. Any volunteers???
3. An undefended city can be bribed at half price.
4. Remember that stacked units are immune to bribery, so your obsolete units can be added to a stack to make you riflemen in a mountain fortress unbribable.
5. Stationed spies do not increase the defense of the city to industrial sabotage. Stationed spies only prevent technology theft and I think they help against the enemy planting a nuke, but my games don't usually go that long to really have a good feel for that one--anyone have more info on the nuke protection?
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inca911
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St. Paul, MN
Jan 2000
time: 05:12
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Irrigation Without Water!?!
Another little known civ fact:
If you are in an area with no access to water you can automate your Settler under the "Orders" menu. He will first build a road on the square, and then he will build irrigation--even if there is no water around! I have noted that the settler seems to graviate towards special terrain squares if you have them, so you may have mixed success with this trick if you are in an area with a lot of specials until they have been improved. Anyone want to place a wager on whether or not the AI does this during play??
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inca911
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St. Paul, MN
Jan 2000
time: 05:12
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*bump* for Jim W.
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outerface
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Minneapolis, MN USA
May 2000
time: 05:12
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One thing that I've found is that the free resource in the city square includes when building on a special. This works for the four specials that don't already produce a shield, ex. Spice, Fruit, Furs, and Gems. If you're willing to have your first city only have one special, building on a Spice square gives you an early boost in research, as your city square produces 2-1-4 under Despotism, which helps on the race to Monarchy. Of course, if you do the start a mine- build a city trick the best is Wine with 2-3-5 after Monarchy. The other thing I've noticed is that if you build on a Gold or Iron resource you get a food from the square, despite it's being a mountain. If you're willing to take the slower growth, this is the fastest tech/money start as you begin with 6 trade arrows with no rivers or roads in sight. I find that I like to build on the specials that are on the fringe of the pattern and build my super cities in the middle of the pattern to use 4 specials.
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jpk
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Minneapolis
Feb 1999
time: 05:12
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Normally I play on a 10,000 square multicontinent world. I tend to be peaceloving until I get tactics. There are three laws for civilizations which I try to abide by:
1. Unless you have a good reason to build something other than a caravan, build a caravan.
2. Unless you have a good reason to attack something else, attack the capital with sufficient force to take it on the first try.
3. Unless you have a good reason to save your money, spend it about as fast as you get it.
Comments on these laws.
Early caravans are the fastest way to build early wonders like Copernicus and Michelangelo. By the time the early Rennaisance wonders have been built caravans are more profitable when used for trade. Also trade caravans delivered to a distant continent boost science far better than any library or university. Build other items if you need to stave off riots or need defenders. Diplomats and spies are good because they don't cost shields. If you have some money you can buy extra defenders.
If you can take the capital it will often put other cities into disorder or cause the AI to build another palace. But then it will be cheaper to bribe other cities. Sometimes a capital will be in an awkward location and you will have to take some preliminary cities.
Keep enough money so that it is expensive for AI civilizations to bribe your units or cites. Have enough money so that you can bribe attackers. Beyond that spend the money to build wonders or caravans.
Hopefully this message is worth $.02.
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05-02-2000 06:34
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