12-05-2000 04:45									#31
	Browse Apolyton AD-FREE

its my belief in the early game that you need more cities than none settlers on the board to receive one.

I have found that if i settle both settlers quickly that i receive advanced tribes or nomads much more frequently than if i have one city and my other origional none settler roaming the area looking for huts which is suicidal anyways

	12-05-2000 06:37									#32
	Remove this text

I like the theory. Now, somebody prove it.

I've done some experimenting, and never considered your above approach. I've tried resetting a million times on non grass/plains and not been able to get a wandering tribe. Yet on the next turn, I was getting a wandering tribe from a different hut about 25% of the time.
I have no clue what the difference in the situations was...

You raise an interesting theory. Anybody want to test it

	09-06-2000 07:23									#34
	Support Apolyton buy from Amazon

I noticed a pattern today while playing hotseat(crazy stuff that).It seemed you can only get 1 nomad per continent/landmass.

My mate was exploring and settling all over the large real world map.EVERYTIME he landed on a new mass he would get a nomad in the first 2 or 3 huts.Then no more.He uses it to build a city and "poof" he would get another on that land mass.Happened at least 6 times.

Course hotseat is odd.

	09-06-2000 09:14									#35
	Support Apolyton

Opening huts before building a capital always seems sensible. No risk of barbs, and those NON chariots/archers are wonderful. The downside is the useless scroll of wisdom - not on the path to Monarchy. I have only recently realised that a scroll of wisdom before founding your capital slows down research. Alas, there is no such thing as a NON advance before the first city is in place.

--------------
SG (2)

	14-06-2000 09:26									#37
	Support Apolyton buy from Amazon

Smash

Is it worth adding to your knowledge

9. Huts on mountains never yield barbs (pretty sure anyway) and barbs from huts in Arctic/Antarctic always freeze to death.


East Street Trader

	14-06-2000 09:33									#38
	Inflate your Upload Space

I've gotten barbs from mountains many times before.
RAH

	25-09-2000 05:39									#40
	Support Apolyton, pre-order Civilization IV

That has not been my experience.Invention does it for me.

One of the fortnight occs(Mongols War-only-sometimes) I had more than 24 techs and still got tech from hut.Conversly I beleive at least 1 player got invention before 24 and suffered because of it.

Anybody?

I've also got barbs from mountains.In fact I have gotten barbs from all terrains.
[This message has been edited by Smash (edited September 24, 2000).]

	25-09-2000 17:37									#41
	Suffering from ads?

1. Invention has always done it for me also.

2. When we were playing the non-city challange, I opened about 50 huts prior to capturing my first city and got all techs or mercenaries. (NO, cities, non-settlers, barbs) I tried the non-city challange quite a few times before I found a setup that gave you a chance at victory. (being on the same continent as an ai that builds a city on the coast). Every time the same thing happened with the huts prior. So I figured I opened over 300 huts and there were no exceptions.

RAH

	26-09-2000 00:21									#44
	Enter the AD-FREE zone

As an exercise, I played a game in MP mode as the only human player. My sole purpose was to cheat my brains out and ALWAYS take a science from a hut after I had gotten some non horses and chariots. I kept resetting on every hut until I got what I wanted.

Invention was the key factor... not number of sciences.
I was able to get EVERY SCIENCE up until that point in the science tree. I played around a little bit too.
Once it was down to only a few available sciences, I would take invention, and see if I could get another science after that... I couldn't, even after HUNDREDS OF RESETS!

Now, I'm sure people will come in and say they remember getting corporation or some other science from a hut past invention on the tech tree... but I would say that it is just a bug, and a weird event that is not supposed to happen.

Please, go out and duplicate my test. I look forward to putting this subject to rest once and for all.

	26-09-2000 03:36									#45
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization 2

Ming ... agreed! However,if an AI civ has invention, and you don't, the human player can continue to get scrolls of wisdom from huts.
----------
SG (2)

	26-09-2000 17:49									#46
	Inflate your Upload Space

I did the same test as ming before MP came out, a while back. Actually in response to a thread of the same topic. I kept resetting if I got invention and was able to get every other tech prior in the tech tree(somewhere in the mid to high 30s count if I remember correctly). Once I had to take invention and did, I tried resetting over a hundred times on the next hut and needless to say never saw another tech.

Maybe SG's comment helps explain how someone remembers getting a tech that should have not been possible.
That is what we should test for grins. hmmmnnnnnn.

RAH

	29-09-2000 20:58									#47
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization: The Boardgame

My "Seeds of Greatness" scenario features seven civs in the Ancient Near East, most of whom begin with one city and no usable techs. The Persians have a "no,no" tech called "Persian Culture" (Invention), which is used solely to generate "Persian-looking" people in the city window. The unintended side-effect (which I now refer to as a "Feature" - thank you, Bill Gates) is that the Persians can NEVER get techs from Goody Huts. All the other civs routinely gain techs in this manner, so it's also clear that Invention only hamstrings the owning civ.

I playtested them all for months, so there's no question whatsoever that Invention is determinative.

	30-09-2000 03:49									#48
	Support Apolyton

Did some testing in cheat mode on tot, giving all techs to all civs, revealing the whole map and opening every hut 1 by 1. I found that the all the advanced tribes i got were only size 1 cities with no improvements... maybe advanced tribe size is related to the number of turns?
[This message has been edited by DrFell (edited September 30, 2000).]

	02-10-2000 17:41									#49
	Put an end to popups!

Doesn't this raise an interesting prospect? If an AI civ is encouraged to gain Invention and one of its derivatives (Demo, Gunpowder, SteamEngine) a human player could trade or steal the derivative and then ?perhaps? gain subsequent techs from huts!!!
Am I missing something here??


------------------
____________
Scouse Git[1]

"CARTAGO DELENDA EST" - Cato the Censor
"The Great Library must be built!"

	02-10-2000 18:32									#50
	Put an end to popups!

Yes DrFell, the bigger cities don't occur till well after AD. And when it does occur it's random. I tested resetting a few huts after it was late enough for this to happen, and sometimes I'd get a one size city, and other times I'd get a 4 sized city with 2 or three improvements. Even got an aquaduct in one.

RAH

	02-10-2000 23:27									#51
	Support Apolyton buy from Amazon

Rah, so it is random then. I have received large and small new cities. i prefer the larger ones because if they are placed properly, you can spit out settlers to quickly colonize the area. If it is attached with improvements i don't wish to pay for, ie aquaduct at size three, i just sell it and it pays for a rush buy on the settler. Often i will sell an improvement and then churn out a settler that turn or the next one.

	03-10-2000 02:03									#52
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization: The Boardgame

My first Quadruple Post!
[This message has been edited by DrFell (edited October 02, 2000).]

	03-10-2000 02:04									#53
	Lose 30 kilos (of popups)

See above
[This message has been edited by DrFell (edited October 02, 2000).]

	03-10-2000 02:05									#54
	Support Apolyton, buy Galactic Civilizations

Yep ... See Above
[This message has been edited by DrFell (edited October 02, 2000).]

	03-10-2000 02:06									#55
	Browse Apolyton AD-FREE

You guessed... see above Quintuple post! do i hold the record?
[This message has been edited by DrFell (edited October 02, 2000).]

	03-10-2000 02:07									#56
	Support Apolyton, buy Galactic Civilizations

I dont think its completely random... during my turn 2 test of advanced tribes i got about 6... ALL were size 1 with no improvements. But i agree that later on, they seem to be of random size and with random improvements.
Another question: has anyone ever got an advanced tribe without enough food to support its population? Or one with unhappy people, i.e. civil disorder?

	03-10-2000 02:15									#57
	Enter the AD-FREE zone

i have never had not enough food, but i have had a city in disorder, especially if i don't leave a troop in there for martial law. I agree only later in the game do i get big cities. There must be a year that triggers these sorts of things. I notice it and just keep on civin. I rarely take the time to record when these strange anomolies occur. I am too lazy

	03-10-2000 17:15									#58
	Inflate your Upload Space

I'm not sure if it is a year or a particular tech that triggers larger advanced tribes, but I've gotten size 4 cities that were in food deficit with 4 improvements, as well as size 1 cities that brought in 6 extra food and no improvements, as well as size 2-4 cities without temples (so in disorder) and everything in between. I've never gotten an aquaduct, but then by the time I am finding large advanced tribes, I'm pretty dominant city and tech-wise (almost by definition since if there are huts left late, the AI hasn't been too effective using their half of the world)

------------------
Sleep is a luxury and I don't have Shakespeare's Theatre in my back yard.

	12-10-2000 22:52									#59
	Support Apolyton buy from Amazon

Odds on disorder related to your Government form versus size of empty city. Have gotten them up to size 4 with improvements up to aquaducts. Have gotten settlers from plains and grassland, found an advanced tribe in the woods in my last game, got techs higher than invention BEFORE I applied the 2.42 patch.