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Velociryx
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of Candle'Bre
Apr 1999
time: 05:14
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Progress Report:
I’ve opened the Alphax.txt file and have begun the (insert several “choice” words here) process of making the changes necessary….UGH….man, what a way to cause blindness! But, a good deal of progress was made, and here are some of the highlights:
Three new techs added:
Basic Rocketry
Advanced Rocketry
Perpetual Motion Mechancis
Notes here: Basic Rocketry is actually pre-air power, and is now one of the pre-requisites for that tech—I was looking for a way to delay DAP, and that seemed as good a way as any.
As promised, the orbital stuff has been moved forward a great deal, with hydrosats coming available at Basic Rocketry, mining sats at DAP, and energy sats at advanced rocketry.
PB’s are also available at Advanced Rocketry, and ODP’s are available at Orbital Spaceflight, so there is very definitely a window of opportunity to use “da bomb.”
The Quantum Reactor has been moved to the Perpetual Motion tech, which rests some 6-7(?) techs above fusion.
Discovery rate has been set to 35% of standard….I was using the PK’s as my “test faction” and found that on building my first base, my “next discovery” was listed at 27 years….not including the first ten years in which there was no research being done….that seems really harsh, but there’s no other way around it if you want the late game to have meaningful delays in tech acquisiton, and it certainly does give players a good reason to grow and expand! (I had experimented with setting tech discovery to 20% of standard, but that put my first tech arriving in 112 years, and I figured that might be just a shade overboard!)
The GeneJack factory is now the “Sweatshop,” and resides at Industrial Automation. Price remains unchanged, but the facility now has no upkeep cost—I figured that dealing with the extra drone was “upkeep” enough!
Hovertanks are available at Doctrine Initiative, as is deep pressure hull (and repair bay is somewhere nearby)
Hovertanks now serve as land-based transports with a capacity of four. I realize that given the size differences here, this creates a bit of a logic problem, but I think that viable land-based transports have a place in the game (and besides, it was kinna cool to have my Hover-Missile Launcher milling around my empire, lobbing missiles at enemy troops)
Messed around with the “slow” special ability, and if I could find a way to make slow units CHEAPER, it’d be a viable defensive option, but as it stands, slow units cost just as much as regular ones, so I’m not sure who would ever use this even if it WAS enabled…..
Heavy Transports have been enabled.
Terraformers are available from game start, with no pre-requisite technology.
Forests take an extra turn to plant.
It takes a LONG time (30 turns!) to raise and lower land.
Sensor Buoys may now be built at sea (not yet tested)
As discussed earlier, Clean Reactors, Nerve Gas, and the Supply Crawler have all been removed from the game.
The Chopper had its wings clipped.
The AI factions have been given a much greater interest in infrastructure.
Played out two partial test games and found it pretty tough goings! Even under market conditions and geared for research, the best I could do by 2200 was get tech in 9 (7 if I ruined my economy), so that part looks good!
AI Miriam is a BEAST! Twice in a row she actually got SotBH before anybody else!
Splinter Faction Notes:
Started with Ashaandi, since I suspect his faction will be the toughest one to balance. From my limited testing so far, I think I’ll need to do something further to bring the faction to heel, as I think they’ll still run away with the game.
With a –3 Support penalty and a –3 Morale, it sounds funny to say that I’m worried about them running away with the game, but consider:
1) No drone problems, ever….meaning they can ‘borg
2) The Support problem pretty much forces them to make Doctrine: Loyalty their first tech….but when they get it (and thank GOD it’ll take them a while!), their support rating goes from –5 to –3, suddenly allowing them to actually field some units….that’s when things start getting ugly.
I have not yet added in their free ability (just kinna bare bones at present), but when I do….I don’t think it’ll be hard at all for them to just run over everybody….I may have to give them an even harsher support penalty to keep them in check…dunno yet.
But, a pretty productive weekend….got a lot of the groundwork in place.
A question for you guys:
Are you basically happy with the SMAC tech tree, or would you be interested in seeing a re-design? I’ve got a new tree outlined, and I’ve tested it a few times….it works pretty well I guess, but in taking a close look at the existing tree, I’m surprisingly happy with the way it’s put together…..I made a few cosmetic changes to it, but nothing major in the mod so far (tho I DID save my re-designed tree in case there was interest in seeing it put in place).
More later….it’s back to the SMAX proof with me!
-=Vel=-
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Avenoct
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NC, USA
Apr 2001
time: 00:14
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quote:
Are you basically happy with the SMAC tech tree, or would you be interested in seeing a re-design? |
Well, you know MY answer to that one.  Redesigns are fun. But there is a point somewhere where a Patch (ala Hydromechanics) becomes a New Game (Star Wars Mod), or something in between (SNAC). I think you've crossed over into the New Game area. So my advice, don't settle for half-way. But of course, you could expect I would say that. It's just that it's pretty hard to view major changes as good 'ol Smac. The game will play differently, have different strategies across the board, etc., so whatever makes it the best possible 'New Game' the better, once crossing that line, IMO.
Do I sense convergeance between Aldebaran and Torture? On a whimsical note: Vel, if you'd like to use the Aldeb engine for techs, etc. and make this a 'patch' of Aldeb, be my guest! I don't think you will, but I couldn't help notice some similarities....of course, some of the general changes are hard to resist...like bringing up hovertanks, using carriers and subs...bringing up Sats and hurting choppers....adding transport capability to other units... I think any good mod-maker is going to realize the opportunities after awhile, so please don't think I'm saying they're my ideas  . What I mean is, since some of these things are going to be similar between Aldebaran and the Torture mod, does this class of mods need it's own name? Super-smac? Chuckles.
-Happy Crawlering,
Smack
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Nadexander
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Saratoga, California
Mar 2001
time: 21:14
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quote:
Originally posted by Velociryx
The GeneJack factory is now the “Sweatshop,” and resides at Industrial Automation. Price remains unchanged, but the facility now has no upkeep cost—I figured that dealing with the extra drone was “upkeep” enough!
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AH! Sweatshops?! Thats so... so.. un-SMAC . Seriously it sounds like it belongs in a 19th century worldbuilder, not a 22nd century scifi game. Reall good idea though but change the name =P
quote:
Hovertanks are available at Doctrine Initiative, as is deep pressure hull (and repair bay is somewhere nearby)
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Doctrine: Initiative really becomes a killer tech this way!
quote:
Hovertanks now serve as land-based transports with a capacity of four. I realize that given the size differences here, this creates a bit of a logic problem, but I think that viable land-based transports have a place in the game (and besides, it was kinna cool to have my Hover-Missile Launcher milling around my empire, lobbing missiles at enemy troops)
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Quick question. Does carrying capacty increase with reactor? If so then i think 4 is too much for land based tranport (considering its double a foil and as much as a cruiser. )
quote:
Terraformers are available from game start, with no pre-requisite technology.
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Do you find that this improve the AI's use/building of formers in general? This sounds like a great idea considering that it take ~30 years for your first tech and all that time without formers is just rediculous
-Nadexander
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gwillybj
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Eurytion Mining Colony: 165°C dayside, 165°F nightside
Mar 2001
time: 00:14
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Just a thought... hesitant to even give it voice... 
Instead of removing Supply Crawlers entirely, would it not be possible to make them require support, say, 2, or even 3?
That way, a mine inside a base's production radius would produce more by being worked than crawled, while mines crawled from outside would be less attractive because of using the first 2 or 3 minerals to support the Crawler, with the rest for the base. (Edited this sentence  and it still doesn't look right.)
My idea here is that the Supply Crawler is really not just one hopper running out to the mine and back with the goods, but more like a train, or trains, of hoppers, requiring engines, manpower, maintenance, etc., to bring in those remote minerals.
If offered as a Basic Unit, and disabling Supply Transport as an Equipment choice (as was mentioned earlier in this thread), would this be an acceptable alternative?
Last edited by gwillybj on 06-08-2001 at 06:13
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Gallagher
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Tulsa, OK
Jan 1970
time: 05:14
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About removing Clean Reactors from the game, let me suggest something I worked out for the Harsh Planet mod. I made clean reactor ability only possible for ground units, and made the cost dependent on the speed+weapon parameters. So, no more free planes, missiles, or ships. And high attack factor units become way too expensive to put clean reactors on (the cost for a clean speeder missle launcher is 250% of the basic cost, and it gets worse from there). On the other hand, Home Guard infantry defensive units get the ability for free. I wanted Terraformers to have cheap but not free clean reactors, and found I could do that by reducing their basic cost from 4 to 3. That doesn't change the cost of the basic unit oddly enough, and the ability only adds an extra 10 minerals to the cost, which seems about right.
I like this because it's more expensive to build an invading army than a defensive one. This change reflects that nicely.
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Vultur
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Milan
Jun 2000
time: 06:14
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quote:
Originally posted by Velociryx
Hovertanks are available at Doctrine Initiative, as is deep pressure hull (and repair bay is somewhere nearby)
Hovertanks now serve as land-based transports with a capacity of four.
Heavy Transports have been enabled.
Terraformers are available from game start, with no pre-requisite technology.
Forests take an extra turn to plant.
It takes a LONG time (30 turns!) to raise and lower land.
Sensor Buoys may now be built at sea (not yet tested)
As discussed earlier, Clean Reactors, Nerve Gas, and the Supply Crawler have all been removed from the game.
The Chopper had its wings clipped.
The AI factions have been given a much greater interest in infrastructure.
-=Vel=- |
As I've promised sometimes ago (Ideas for splinter MOD, before some little PC's problems delayed my work- I've used pen and paper before change Alphax)
my ideas were:
[1] more native life power (done)
[2] making quantum reactor more useful (done - techs needed:36, but Singularity reactor comes maybe too late 71 techs!)
[3] more power to Optical Computer (done)
[4] more power to Sea bases (done)
[5] more interest in the BMT (almost done, I'm not sure... )
[6] less power to clean reactors (...done...maybe)
[7] less power to crawlers (almost done...)
[8] less power to forest (done...increasing the power of the farm!) 
at this initial idea I've added others...
[1] less power to Aki and Zak (played bad from the AI, but devasting in SP)
[2] Miriam has not longer her own HSA...
[3] Wealth and FM are more intelligent SE
[4] While try now to play Demo/Planned/Creches to Pop-Boom!
(industry bonus remain intersting but...)
[5] Knowledge is now an hard choice in SP  (and Aki and Zak will have more problems that probes...)
[6] Added a new facility, tested, working but maybe overpowering
(I don't know if AI will built it... has no graphic -don't know why-, but a nice sound file...)
[7] Some special lurks in SE... talents
I need beta testers to comment my ideas.
Additional rules, if you desire a game more interesting...
You cannot built ALL combat SPs (CN, CDF, MMC, CBA, CF, HSA, NT)
but only 3 of this SPs (CBA & CF counts as two SPs)
You cannot built the Telepath Matrix and the Cloning Vats.
either the first, or the second one.
You cannot built the HSA and the NT.
either the first, or the second one.
You cannot built the CBA and the Space Elevator.
same as above.
You cannot built units with two attack or two defence abilities.
Resonance and pulse weaponry counts as ability. Free abilities DON'T count.
I've not deleted from the game the "overpowering" things because it would mean to deprive the AI of the means to keep the game interesting. (Try to beat an AI with the CBA and maybe the CF!)
 Attachment: vultur's ac.zip
This has been downloaded 66 time(s).
Last edited by Vultur on 26-08-2001 at 11:04
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TeknoMerc
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hey there Vel!
I agree with the comments made so far with regards to crawlers and killer SPs. I tried out the SNAX mod last year and adopted some of those long-term. so I've given them a lot of soak time.
here are some of my results.
* Sea Sensors are a good and easy fix to what I consider an oversight. they not only protect bases, but provide a wonderful early-warning system. this can cut down on the ships on patrol, moving them more toward a mobile counter-strike force instead. cool!
* I tried "Sea Bunkers", named Minefields, but I couldn't figure out how to get a graphic to show up on the map. they worked, but were invisible even to the faction that built them . if someone has ideas how to get the graphic working, that would help reach the goal of better seapower.
* killer SPs (part still under playtest)
I solved two ways. increase the mineral cost and moving them in the tech tree. the first are test soaked, but not the second option. since I JUST got back into SMAX after about 6-8 months, I will need to dig a bit to provide the details. an example of what I remember: Cloudbase Academy - increased this one by about 200 minerals so it wasn't so easy to grab.
* changed Foil movement from 4 to 6.
Once Cruiser tech is researched, foils have no use. I thought a tradeoff was more realistic -- foils are fast but not as durable, and cruisers can withstand more damage but sacrifice speed. This affects the opening game in terms of faster sea exploration, colonization, travel. Side effects are less isolation and faster contact with other factions, which may be a good or bad thing depending upon the situation. Faster foils now have more "reach" and are more effective at sitting outside of enemy sensor range to launch a surprise attack or land covert probe teams. I believe this change forces more cooperation between the cruiser and foil type ships for truer fleet actions. It has a better flavor to me also. YMMV.
* Cult of Planet starts with an extra Colony Pod.
After 10+ games with and as CoP, I noticed that this faction barely makes it to the mid-game. If they have, CoP is surely beat up and waiting for the axe to fall. "Why give them a lame Colony Pod", you say? Why not an extra Mindworm or such? Well, an extra Colony Pod is giving more than just a unit, but an investment into the future. It all depends what you do with it (and how you view it). The base that the colony forms it the most formidable weapon in the game -- more that Planet Busters. One base can crank out tons of minerals, energy, population, responsible for building tons of units, facilities and secret projects over the course of time. Think long term.
* copter movement and cost (still under playtest)
Copter movement changed from 8 to 10, but the cost remaining at 8 for the chassis (same as Needlejet). After 20+ games, the Copter is severely lame (IMO) with such a small movement factor for the chassis cost compared to a Needlejet. I believe Firaxis pendulum-swung from the comments of a 16-move Copter is too powerful (multiple attacks) to a relatively weak fix. I would like to hear counter-arguments so my playtest is more meaningful.
* missle movement and cost (still under playtest)
Missle movement changed from 8 to 12 for similar reasons as Copter. The cost is still equivalent to a Needlejet at 8. A number of folks (myself included) complain that the missle chassis is too expensive mineral-wise for the one-shot damage it does. This is an attempt to remedy that.
* added Foil Probe Team, Gravship Probe and VX Poison Gas Missle, and Psi Patrol as standard units
oh, these are fun ones! moreover, the computer factions in single-player get 'em and use 'em too. coupled with a slightly cheaper missle chassis cost, they are good for occasional use.
see attached file for stats.
* weapons
I never liked the fact that weapons could be had faster than armor, so I bumped all weapons one level higher in the tree (mostly). so the Laser is with Non-Linear Math, and Part. Imp. at Superconductor. I can follow up with the complete list later after a bit of research.
-----
editing alphax.txt
somone mentioned that they don't know how to add free facilities to a faction without giving them the tech. in the main faction line, do this:
FACILITY 4, -- gives free Perimeter Defense
here's the squirrely thing -- how Firaxis numbers their lists. some begin with 0 (programmer's view) and some start with 1. the FACILITIES list in alphax.txt begins with 1. this is verified two ways: Yang gets free PD and his file has 4 in FAC. also code a faction up with a test and start a game with them.
the UNITS list start with 0. don't forget that when adding units, correctly sum all that units and put that number under the #UNITS tag.
while I'm on units, here is the list of special abilites that you can give units in the alphax.txt file. I refer to the string of 0/1s after each unit. the only one I haven't figured out is position 25. these are not guesses, but painstaking file hacking and game loading. see attached file for stats. I once tried out making a Jedi Master and Sith Lord. they were cool, but unbalanced the game....
while I'm rambling here, I've hacked a fair number of factions and modified some from the net. now I have fairly balanced set of 9 new factions. I'm still working some kinks outta Skynet, but you should see the pix I scrounged for them -- right from the movie fan site!!!
well, I'll crank it down for now and check out your new factions a bit, and extract more facts of my previous mods.
Attachment: alphaxmods.zip
This has been downloaded 22 time(s).
Last edited by TeknoMerc on 01-09-2001 at 06:47
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Darsnan
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New Syracuse, Beta Prime
Dec 2001
time: 00:14
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Hi Gluegun,
quite interesting that you would revive a thread that had been 2 years dead - any specific reason why you posted now to this thread?
Anyways, just to add to the discussion: I have tried increasing the gravity on a planet, but it seems that the AI's I have playtested have not fared well in regards to this.
I personally agree with the above posts and synopsis that the crawlers are a real game-breaker, as before I discovered Apolyton, why I used crawlers barely more than the AI's, and the SP games were much more competitive! Therefore I would say that any mod to the game should push the crawlers higher in the tech tree, if not removing them from the game completely.
Anyways, to make a long story short: we the human players, in league via the web, have had over 6 years to put this game under the microscope and come up with multiple succesfull ways to defeat the AI's, without any riposte from Firaxis to our strategies. It would therefore be my thought that anyone involved in the AC-Creation Forum would be focused on how we, as a group, should proceed as far as the Next Step for the game is concerned.
My personal thought for a sequel is that once humans re-discover spaceflight, they find the wreckage of a Progenitor spacecraft on Nessus, and are able to reverse-engineer the Progenitor's Hyperdrive, thus allowing almost instantaneous extrasolar spaceflight anywhere in our Galaxy! Armed with Progenitor spacemaps also salvaged from the wreckage, humans cast their seed out amongst the stars, seeking out habitable planets free of strife (yeah right ) .
With the realization that a second independent loading of SMAX can be achieved on your D: Drive, and because the game is very customizable, why under the above mentioned scenario, the Alphax.txt can be modified to reflect many different planets, and the 8th Faction can be modified to fit into the new environment, as well (i.e. you can play regular SMAX on your C: Drive, and you can play a modified version of SMAX on your D: Drive).
I am currently working on a mod for the game, reflecting the above scenario of extrasolar colonization, and it is very good IMO. However with the collective minds available here at Apolyton, we should be able to create a plethora of scenarios based upon the above scenario of discovering the wreckage of a Progenitor spaceship.
I will add that I have playtested a modified Alphax.txt with a starting date for the game of MY2492, and the Progenitors arrive approximately 5 years later in MY2497, and the game plays normally from there, thus opening the door for many enjoyable scenarios outside of Alpha Centauri.
The door is now open: Create your own Planets independent of Alpha Centauri, as I am now doing.....
D
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Impaler[WrG]
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Cheif Manufacturing Officer of Morgan Industires
May 2002
time: 22:14
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Lets do a run down of Each Secret Project and everyone give their opinion on if it should go UP in the tec tree or DOWN. Give a general sense of when you think it should be or a specific tec if you like.
> The Human Genome Project, Up one level perhaps
> The Command Nexus, Good
> The Weather Paradigm, Up quite a bit, Ecological Enginering perhaps
> The Merchant Exchange, 
> The Empath Guild, Up again, Centuri Meditation
> The Citizens' Defense Force, Good
> The Virtual World, UP to Optical Computers or later
> The Planetary Transit System, Up well past the point when you will be hitting the Buracracy limit and thus already have most of your bases, Super Conductors perhaps
> The Neural Amplifier, Good
> The Maritime Control Center, Good
> The Planetary Datalinks, Good
> The Supercollider, Good
> The Longevity Vaccine, Good
> The Hunter-Seeker Algorithm, Good
> The Cyborg Factory, Good asuming MMI overall is weakened like moving Copter to a differnt tec
> The Theory of Everything, Good
> The Dream Twister, Good
> The Universal Translator, Good if late game tecnolgy can be slowed enough to make 2 tecs desirable by this point
> The Network Backbone, Good
> The Nano Factory, Good
> The Cloning Vats, Up a bit
> The Self-Aware Colony, Down a bit, +2 Support aint much
> Clinical Immortality, Good
> The Space Elevator, Good
> The Singularity Inductor, Down a Lot as its on the Doorstep of Trancendence
> The Bulk Matter Transmitter, Down a Lot, Posibly filling gap vacated by Planetary Transit System
> The Telepathic Matrix, Good
> The Manifold Harmonics, Good
> The Nethack Terminus, Down a bit
> The Cloudbase Academy, Way up, beyond Orbital space flight
> The Planetary Energy Grid, Good
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Darsnan
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New Syracuse, Beta Prime
Dec 2001
time: 00:14
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quote:
Originally posted by Impaler[WrG]
I too have taken a look at this project and would like to see new discussions on all aspects, I will likly incorporate some or all of your ideas in my personal Single Player games and if we are successfull perhaps even a Multiplayer game or two to tweek the Mod would be a nice idea.
Some additonal ideas I had:
Make a modified version of each of the Factions, focusing on overall balance and on any balance changes needed specificaly for the Mod. In addition new abilites might be added to each faction as their are several unused paramiters such as interest or freeability that are functional and can be used to spice the factions up a bit. I was thinking of adding DeepRadar to all Spartan Units, NonLethal Methods to the Hive, Trance to the Gaians ect ect.
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Heah Impaler [WrG],
concerning the two items above: I have already modified my Alphax.txt a great deal to reflect the previous discussion, as well as change out the units for the 8th Faction. What I have done is do a second loading of SMAX onto my D: Drive, and am building the mod for the game there. If you want, I can E-Mail you what I have to date, and you can try it out and see what you think.
As far as modifying the Faction Files are concerned, why I am building my mod to start in MY2492, with an ending date around MY3000, so I would need new Factions (or at least Faction Leaders) to populate this mod with, as the original Faction Leaders aren't likely to be leading their Factions in MY2492. If you are going to concentrate on this area, let me know, as I'd be interested in seeing what you come up with.
D
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Gluegun
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Actually, they stay human for the entire time... even if its lategame, tech and timewise, they still can do the human things like going to other bases (ie, if an opposing faction captures a base of yours...), and the "faction defeated" animation shows a *human*... doesn't Gene Therapy let pretty much just the leaders and maybe a few others be long-lived, and Clinical Immortality let a few individuals be immortal as a brain in a Jar, and the Longevity Vaccine let most *anyone* in your faction be long lived?
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30-07-2001 21:12
and I've seen that someone has downloaded my changes... 
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