23-07-2001 14:58									#31
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Mmmm.... mouse gestures...

	23-07-2001 19:07									#32
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quote: Originally posted by Glonk Why doesn't the Mozilla devteam just add in support for the "IE-specific tags"? It's a huge coalition of open source programmers, they sure as hell have the manpower for it. The reason they don't add it is because they just want to put a nice sticker on their product saying "standards compliant, IE isn't, nyeah. Who cares if you'll still have trouble rendering some pages, this IS the standard!"

The problem with that is the IE-specific tags is a moving target. They can change without notice, subjected only to the whim of the IE development team. Another problem is there is a good reason for standards. Com'on, you haven't answered me why M$ is on the W3C standard committees yet felt compelled to go off on it's own merry way.

quote: Originally posted by Glonk Using that kind of logic you can shoot down basically all of CSS.

No. Clearly you don't understand what CSS does.

quote: Originally posted by Glonk It's just nice little things that can enhance the user experience, like being able to control table borders better, recolor the scrollbar, etc.

In other words, trivial extensions of no real purpose.

quote: Originally posted by Glonk There's a reason why developers sometimes use the IE-specific tags: The "standards" tags are inadequate.

Says the person who doesn't know what "-->" does.

	24-07-2001 01:27									#33
	Help yourself to an AD-FREE life

quote: Originally posted by Urban Ranger The problem with that is the IE-specific tags is a moving target. They can change without notice, subjected only to the whim of the IE development team. Another problem is there is a good reason for standards. Com'on, you haven't answered me why M$ is on the W3C standard committees yet felt compelled to go off on it's own merry way.

The tags don't change, they add new ones. Changing how the tags work breaks all existing webpages. IE is standards compliant in that all webpages designed for other browsers will also be viewed on IE. It has no trouble reading standards compliant code. MS is on the committee, but as you probably know, one member can't just magically add tags to the "standard", instead a huge undertaking must take place to hold the necessary meetings and then all agree on it, then it eventually gets added. The problem with this is that it's too slow. The same problem exists with OpenGL now, Direct3D is surpassing it with great speed with respect to capabilities and ease of use. The only foothold OpenGL has is the cross-platform support, which most game designers don't seem to be too fond of anyway due to support problems.

quote: No. Clearly you don't understand what CSS does.

Tad hypocritical, aren't we? Since you do understand, and I don't, kindly explain to everyone how CSS provides content to websites to make users come back, while the IE-specific add-ons do not.

You don't NEED what CSS gives, it all just makes the user experience better. You don't even really need the FONT tag for christ sake. What you're saying is the "IE-specific" tags are useless because they don't contribute content to the site. The same can be said about all of CSS, you can get away with using raw HTML to deliver the same content.

quote: In other words, trivial extensions of no real purpose.

Again, using that logic, CSS is a bunch of trivial extensions of no real purpose.

quote: Says the person who doesn't know what "-->" does.

You seem to have some trouble comprehending. I knwo very well what that does, but I was wondering why the hell Opera was displaying the tail end of a comments tag (Which should never be displayed). Sorry, I thought my comment was fairly obvious. It is, I guess, but just to some people.

	24-07-2001 02:00									#34
	Inflate your Upload Space

Siro :
How did you managed to get the Opera to show Hebrew?

	24-07-2001 02:50									#35
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Okay, you asked for it...

From the other thread:

quote: I've not getting the --> with webwasher + IE enabled...

And from this thread:

quote: I was wondering why the hell Opera was displaying the tail end of a comments tag (Which should never be displayed).

Here's a screenshot from IE 5.5 with WW active:

	24-07-2001 02:54									#36
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Try it with IE 6.

	24-07-2001 02:58									#37
	Suffering from ads?

Ah, I see... No serious answers from you. Well, you just be happy with your M$ s**t and we'll worry about how to keep our customers happy

	24-07-2001 02:59									#38
	Avatar Enlargement: We've got the solution

Always a whiner.

Get started on fixing the 58 pages of bugs.

	25-07-2001 01:32									#39
	Inflate your Upload Space

Testing, Opera 5.0 on Linux...

	26-07-2001 02:02									#40
	Support Apolyton, buy Galactic Civilizations

CSS is a great tool for simplifying the designer's work, generalising styles (in a manner similiar to XML but more practical in today's proper-XML-rendering-lacking world), reducing bandwidth and improving the aesthetics of the page. In fact, after I've started using CSS, I've become even less inclined to use all those "cool" tricks. Sure, a custom-colored navbar is nice, but it's really hard to not to have it dreadfully annoying after the first one or two usages.
In fact, CSS allows you to make a totally clean, imageless website that will still look better than most image-full sites, and will load a million times faster. It also simplifies the usage of ASP, PHP and the such in some cases, such as creation of parsers similiar to UBB's or EZboard's codes, or color-scheme choosers, that some people are fond of.
CSS also allows the designer to change the theme of the website easily, changing one or two .css files instead of plodding through dozens or hundreds of HTML pages for days, searching for that font tag. It's also easier to read, class="nav" is a lot easier than reading the five or six attributes (some of them don't even exist in normal HTML) that make it up.
Useless nonsense? Standard CSS is exactly the opposite, while the IE addons are mostly (I said *mostly*) nonsential and annoying toys. Thus Spake Mark.
Opera is a great browser, but I don't usually use it. I normally use IE for most tasks on Windows, and Mozilla on Linux. Mozilla has the advantage of having the potential of correctly displaying Hebrew text (Eli d00d).
All in all, everything has it's advantages. Windows, Linux, IE, Opera, Mozilla... All have advantages and disadvantages. And Glonk, 75% of the market isn't a monopoly. Every fourth person on the Internet is not using IE. And when I build a website, I'm trying to reach EVERYBODY. Yes, even those with a mere 33.6 modem, 640x480 res and 256 colors. Believe it or not. And I'm happy to say that I do it quite well.
No, the site you'll visit if you click on my homepage isn't the best site I made, nor does it conform to the above "standards". It's a site I made more than a year ago, when I was young and foolish, and didn't know CSS or PHP. Or anything much, in fact. I'm working on a renewed version for that site that will be in the air quite soon, hopefully.