27-02-2002 04:24									#181
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Shadow, try here

The SLC files go in the ctp2_data/default/gamedata directory, but you have to put a line in script.slc to include them. Details should be in the top of the slic file. Open it with wordpad or something.

	27-02-2002 17:30									#182
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Immortal Wombat already posted the Cradle fix slic files on his homepage (the link: http://www.weaver1.btinternet.co.uk/CradleFixes.zip ), see his earlier post. The forts for AIs code shouldn't be needed for the Cradle setup as there is also a Cradle compartible version in CRADLE Deity Slayer (AI SLIC boosts). You can also install it into the standart version just open the CRAI_FortsForAIs.slc, for further instructions just open that file with any texteditor like notpad, (as IW already said). For the two files on IW's homepage just unzip them into your ..\ctp2_data\default\gamedata directory.

-Martin

	28-02-2002 14:28									#183
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I have a problem. Its about 800 BC, gigantic map, 14 civs (and 4 extra for revolts), very hard and lots of Barbs. Every now and then when i try to save the game crashes back to desktop. It happened a few times since 1000 BC.

One thing was very disappointed with CTP2 compared with CTP1 was that there was no chance to acquire advances when capturing enemy cities. I really missed that.

Any chance of introducing that to cradle ?

	28-02-2002 16:10									#184
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quote: Originnally posted by stankarp One thing was very disappointed with CTP2 compared with CTP1 was that there was no chance to acquire advances when capturing enemy cities. I really missed that. Any chance of introducing that to cradle ?

Open the CRA_const.txt in your ..\ctp2_data\default\gamedata\ folder with any editor (e.g. notepad), and search in the file for these lines:

quote: CAPTURE_CITY_ADVANCE_CHANCE 0.33 # chance of gaining an advance when capturing a city (assuming they have advances you don't)

Change the value there to 1.00 and you should gain an advance whenever you capture a city and your opponent has an advance you don't have. By the way in the original game there was a chance of 50% like in CTP1 but unlike in CTP1 it was less probably that the AI had advances that you didn't have.

-Martin

	28-02-2002 20:31									#185
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I'm wondering if the crashes that are happening are due to the adjustments in userprofile.txt, specifically the MaxPlayer setting.

The 1.3 Beta changes are merely numerical balances in the text files and numerical adjustments in both the disaster/updater SLIC code. And I was getting crashes to the desktop with adjusted MaxPlayer numbers pre-1.3 Beta, when I tried to save the gamefile from time to time.

Autosave helps in this matter, but its a very imperfect solution.

	28-02-2002 23:55									#186
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Taking a page from EU2, I have created a set of Modswapper gamefiles, with different ending times (from 600-1000 turns) - also included are some newly-defined Victory options based on the Science Victory setup in the default game.

Below is the readme file for the newly created Cradle Victory options. Each option is part of a separate Modswapper setup.

--------------------------------------------

CRADLE - Birth of an Empire (600 Turns)
You must have the following to succeed
Appian Way Wonder (enable advance Bureaucracy)
20 Theatres (enable advance Drama)
20 Arenas (enable advance Civic Engineering)
20 Courthouses (enable advance Jurisprudence)
20 Forums (enable advance Ethics)
60% Coverage of the world with Obelisk Tile Improvement (enable advance Civic Engineering)

Maintain your Empire for 30 turns.

In addition, the Coliseum Wonder has been changed to give a (+1) Empire Happiness, instead of a free Arena for every city.


CRADLE - Global Empire (800 Turns)
You must have the following to succeed
Voyage of Columbus Wonder (enable advance Nationalism)
30 Governorships (enable advance Nationalism)
30 Manufactories (enable advance Nationalism)
70% Coverage of the world with Colony Tile Improvement (enable advance Nationalism)

Maintain your Empire for 40 turns.


CRADLE - SETI Colony (1000 Turns)
You must have the following to succeed
Icarus Project Wonder (enable advance Computer)
20 Command Centers (enable advance Computer)
40 Think Tanks (enable advance Computer)
70% Coverage of the world with Satellite Relay Stations Tile Improvement (enable advance Computer)

Have everything in place - it will take 75 turns to fly to Alpha Centauri.

--------------------------------------------

Having never tried the Science Victory option in the game - and hearing that it was rather easy, I tried to make it harder by increasing all requirements. For those who have done the Science Victory, you may want to tweak the various CRA_endgameobjects.txt files to make it harder or easier - plus make adjustments in the ending year of the game in the various CRA_Const.txt. file.

One thing though...
My computer is down at home, so I have no way to test these files. What I need is for somebody who is willing to download the attachment, unzip it, and launch each of the following setups through Modswapper...

CRADLE - Birth of an Empire (600 Turns)
CRADLE - Global Empire (800 Turns)
CRADLE - SETI Colony (1000 Turns)
CRADLE - 1.3 Beta

...and then report back if you did/did not have problems. Be sure to check over the Great Library entries for the above affected changes too (buildings, tile improvements, wonders and so forth)

(Be aware that there are some file overwrites to the CRADLE 1.3 Beta too...)

Anyhow, the files are located at this location

	01-03-2002 01:16									#187
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Sounds impressive Dave, I'm downloading now

Is there any way of putting all the victories in one game option, and then having each one only working for a set period? Then if you blow it, you can go for the next one.

	01-03-2002 01:56									#188
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Ben,

As far as I could tell, there was no way to put multiple science victories in the game. The Science victory is structured to build 2 Buildings, a Wonder, and the Obelisk tile improvement. (although I was able to add additional buildings to my requirement by placing a prereq. building for the ones that the endgame required.)

The question that I have concerns that the default game victory condition is enabled by the same advance for all elements that you need to build. For the first setup (600 turn) I changed the prereq. requirements of the buildings to different advances. So what will happen if a player builds the Appian Way wonder, which allows all other civs the ability to start in on the remainder of the Science Victory themselves? Does it grant the advance (Bureaucracy) to all other civs so they should be able to start building the remaining elements themselves? However, the reamining building reqiurements are different advances.

Also, I'm hoping that the game is not hardcoded to grant the remaining civs the GAIA_CONTROLLER advance, because then I have to restructure my work on this. I did not see anything in any files to reflect this though. Could you take a quick look at the files on your CTP2 setup to see if there is anything in the default SLIC files or in any of the endgame-related files.

I believe it will still be hard to get the Science victory in my setup without having to compete against rival AI civs who also are building the Science victory option themselves.

I just realized that the zipped file also overwrites some files from the 12/19 Update too. So this may force everyone in your soon-to-be-started succession game to make sure they have the same files too.

	01-03-2002 02:49									#189
	Remove this text

I'll add it as a separate mod anyway, without any overwrites.

I was thinking, it should be possible to grant multiple endgames, using SLIC to check the building and wonder routines, and just have the obelisks done by file. Then everytime the victory fails, just scan the map for obelisks and remove them all.

If you wanted...

	01-03-2002 05:34									#190
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On the home Apolyton page near the section that has a link to WeS's Med Mod site is a link for 'Cradle of civilisation' i hadn't noticed it before but was thinking it could be confusing for new people looking for Hex's 'Craddle' mod for CTP2. Is this a new link and has anyone noticed this? I hope this isn't a really old thing - i couldn't find mention of it.

	01-03-2002 11:58									#191
	Cradle 1.3 quake bug Browse Apolyton AD-FREE

Cradle 1.3 BETA: Twice now there have been reports of distant earthquakes. All seems well up on the screen, but down under Msgs the "normal' earthquake message is accompanied by two others in the form "A quake happened at x=, y=, the Nearest City is Abydos, Ri" Onscreen, the report was "Force 2." Also, at the time it happens I can't delete the two spurious messages by right clicking (nothing happens). They go away, probably when I end the turn again.

Also, I have found several GL problems with erroneous pre-requisites and links that go to the wrong unit. Horse Archer is MIA in the GL (and Horse Archer links go to Spearman Militia).

Umm...should we start a Cradle 1.3 thread instead of appending this to the 1.2 thread?

	01-03-2002 16:25									#192
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quote: Originally posted by child of Thor Is this a new link and has anyone noticed this? I hope this isn't a really old thing - i couldn't find mention of it.

Its an old Civ2 site, scenarios and such. I think its not very busy these days.

quote: Originally posted by Hermann the Lombard Cradle 1.3 BETA: Twice now there have been reports of distant earthquakes. All seems well up on the screen, but down under Msgs the "normal' earthquake message is accompanied by two others in the form "A quake happened at x=, y=, the Nearest City is Abydos, Ri" Onscreen, the report was "Force 2." Also, at the time it happens I can't delete the two spurious messages by right clicking (nothing happens). They go away, probably when I end the turn again.

Off the top of my head (I'll check the files at home later...) I think you need to open CRA_disasters.slc, and find the line that should look something like message(ND_HUMAN, 'test_message') or 'debug_message' or something, and remove it (delete it, or put // at the start of the line. Its an old messagebox that I thought had been removed before, or that it would never come up.
I'll fix it this evening.

	01-03-2002 20:39									#193
	Re: Cradle 1.3 quake bug Support Apolyton, buy Civilization: The Boardgame

quote: Originally posted by Hermann the Lombard Also, I have found several GL problems with erroneous pre-requisites and links that go to the wrong unit. Horse Archer is MIA in the GL (and Horse Archer links go to Spearman Militia). Umm...should we start a Cradle 1.3 thread instead of appending this to the 1.2 thread?

Check under 'Mounted Archer' - that is the name of the unit (at least I think that is the unit that you are referring to) I checked the Great Library info and it seems to be correct.

Where is the link in your game that is plugging you into the Spearman Militia?

I do plan on starting an official 1.3 Beta Thread (that will hopefully be topped) once I can finalize the Victory options setup. This thread can then be dropped (though I will provide a link for this current thread in the new thread)

Ben,
Did the files load correctly...?

I really like the 3 setups as they are structured (historically, they all make sense) and to merge them into one game would be nice. What you will have to do is to SLIC in a turn deadline for each victory option.

Some questions and comments...

1. One of the features that is so nice in EU2 is there are a number of setups that allow you to play the game anywhere from 100-400 years. A player can choose to play for 100 years, for example, and have a clear cut objective to reach in the game. What I tried to do in my setups is simulate this - so a player can play a 600-turn game with a clearly-defined goal. Currently the game does have a multiple ending option too. (diplomacy/conquest/science/hi-score)

The question I have regards the AI's ability to do one of the options. I believe the CTP2 AI is not structured to attempt any of the options other than hi-score. (Has anyone ever seen the AI accomplish a science victory?) If the AI can't handle the attempt, then what you want to accomplish should work, and could make for a very interesting game - (BTW, the science-style options are expensive, and lead along parts of the tech tree that are usually the last to be researched).

It should be very easy to stop the AI from accomplishing the Science victory option in my setup because of the time factor involved in maintaining all the pieces (30 turns in the first option) Simply go out and pillage a few obelisks and attack AI cities to allow the DestroyBuilding SLIC code to kick in...So, in reality, I do not want the AI to focus on that strategy in the game.

At this point in time, I'm wondering how the AI will counter the human player, if he is attempting the Science-style victory - this is what needs to be tested.

I have no idea how easy or difficult it would be for the human player to accomplish any of the Victory options as I have them set up, so until they are played through and evaluated, the SLIC file can be set up but not really effectively tested. Long term, this is something that can be approached though.

And if we can get some reports on how the modpack setups are working, it would help tremendously to see this come about.

I still plan on retaining the 3 modpack options, because these give the option of a very structured and focused game.

	01-03-2002 22:19									#194
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I've been playing Cradle now since I came back to CTP2 after giving up on Civ3. The only thing good there is the culture aspect. It is just not very complex and too easy to get advances. Anyway, I love Cradle. Thanks to all. One question I've got, though. I can't remember how to increase the number of civs in a game. I changed the userprofile to 21 civs to give me some extra room above the 16 that I want, but when I start a game it defaults to 20 civs (I know, + barbs), and I try to change it to 16 civs and I can only change it to 8 or less. What the heck am I forgetting?

Thanks in advance!

	01-03-2002 22:34									#195
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In Userprofile.txt
change NumPlayer to 17 (16 + human player)
This establishes the starting number of civs in your game

Change MaxPlayer to 20 or more (revolting barb cities will become new civs)

Once you have changed the userprofile settings, do not attempt to set the number in your options box when setting up the game. They will default back to 8.

	02-03-2002 05:32									#196
	Re: Re: Cradle 1.3 quake bug Enter the AD-FREE zone

quote: Originally posted by hexagonian Ben, Did the files load correctly...?

Not quite...

Birth of an Empire:

code:

ENDGAME_PROCESSING_TOWER {
    TerrainImprovement TILEIMP_PROCESSING_TOWER
	
	MinNeeded 10

	PowerSource ENDGAME_FORUM

You didn't actually define an ENDGAME_FORUM, you just redefined (wisely I think) the ENDGAME_POWER_SATELLITES to run off forum buildings. So to get rid of the error, just change the PowerSource line to

code:

PowerSource ENDGAME_POWER_SATELLITES

again.

But that method works, so the rearrangment of the WONDER_SOLARIS_PROJECT to actaully be "the voyage of columbus" is not strictly necessary, and rather confusing for a moment.

The other two load fine. I'm starting a Birth game to see how long the game takes. Looks good though

	02-03-2002 06:54									#197
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Thanks Martin for the advice re changing the settings to allow capture of advances. However, I have since captured 2 Roman cities and I know they have 3 advances that I dont, but I did not get one. I think back to CTP and wonder if it is a random chance of acquiring an advance rather than automatic?

Re the crash bug, I have auto save on all the time but it is unreliable at saving games. In particular, it often mucks up the science, turns to next advance defaults back to the initial number to the next advance and another time, I built a road and I know it was finished by a particular turn because I attacked the Celts in a particular turn down the road. But when I reloaded from autosave after a crash , the road was still not complete. I did however, get 2 free diplomats once when I reloaded from autosave. They appeared, then created embassies then disappeared

Cradle is almost like playing a RTS game. Boy it gets hard. I am playing on a gigantic map with 14 opponents on very hard. I knocked out the other two civs on my continent then crossed over to the next one where there are 5 civs, the Romans being the closest. I have been trying to wipe out the Romans for 600 years. The problem is the Han and the Celts are on either side of the Romans and have been at war with the Romans for as long as I have but they also attack me regularly. The march around Roman territory with stacks of 4-12 units, but only destroy infrastructure of the Romans, they dont appear to attack the Romans. They do, however, regularly break ceasefires with me and attack me all the time. So I have to guard my back all the time. I have as many units facing each of them as I have gradually destoying the Romans. I have had to go back to good old fashioned reconnisaince and pull back tactics that I learnt in Gameleague to cope with them.

I notice that Spy can no longer steal an advance and Diplomat can no longer hold a reception. Is that right for cradle?

One final question, I cannot get past ceasefire in diplomacy and only rarely get a proposal from other Civs unless I enter their terrritory and are not at war. How do you improve regard so they will co-operate? Everytime I put a proposal that is rejected, I then give the Civ 100 gold to try to butter them up but it makes no difference. Suggestions please?

	02-03-2002 08:01									#198
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I hate to ask a question that's already been addressed, but this thread is somewhat... insanely long In Cradle 1.2, I am getting very irritated by the plagues. I know how to make it so that the plagues affect humans and players (at least I think I do), but despite the slic code's functions to reduce plague damage for cities with improvements I still get uniformly wiped out. It's just a really irking cycle to get one's cities up there then every city halved (or worse). Ok, so I go conquer some more population then midway bam, another plague wipes that out too. Is it supposed to be like this or is there a fix?

	02-03-2002 13:02									#199
	Re: Re: Cradle 1.3 quake bug Got spare money?

quote: Originally posted by hexagonian I do plan on starting an official 1.3 Beta Thread (that will hopefully be topped) once I can finalize the Victory options setup. This thread can then be dropped (though I will provide a link for this current thread in the new thread)

Don't worry, the new thread will ordinarilly be topped (and the old one untopped) within 12-24 hours.

	02-03-2002 20:07									#200
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quote: Originally posted by Bad Newbie I hate to ask a question that's already been addressed, but this thread is somewhat... insanely long In Cradle 1.2, I am getting very irritated by the plagues. I know how to make it so that the plagues affect humans and players (at least I think I do), but despite the slic code's functions to reduce plague damage for cities with improvements I still get uniformly wiped out. It's just a really irking cycle to get one's cities up there then every city halved (or worse). Ok, so I go conquer some more population then midway bam, another plague wipes that out too. Is it supposed to be like this or is there a fix?

The original settings are to wipe out 1/3 of the pop, and I left in some test code so it affected every city, with no random chances It was fixed. The file is around somewhere...

I think this should work. Put it in the default/gamedata directory, overwriting the previous one, and then when you open the game again, you will have to reload the slic from the chat box. (chat box open with the ' key, then type /reloadslic )

	03-03-2002 00:10									#201
	Re: Re: Re: Cradle 1.3 quake bug Avatar Enlargement: We've got the solution

[QUOTE] Originally posted by Immortal Wombat

Not quite...

Birth of an Empire:

code:

ENDGAME_PROCESSING_TOWER {
    TerrainImprovement TILEIMP_PROCESSING_TOWER
	
	MinNeeded 10

	PowerSource ENDGAME_FORUM

code:

PowerSource ENDGAME_POWER_SATELLITES

	03-03-2002 02:29									#202
	Put an end to popups!

I think either way will work, the way that you used in the other mods, or the way I outlined above, with the PowerSource line changed.

	03-03-2002 04:18									#203
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Ben, actually, you may be right - now that I think of it, that might be the link for the messages located in info_str.txt.

I will check my files on Monday...

	05-03-2002 22:21									#204
	Re: Re: Cradle 1.3 quake bug Support Apolyton, buy GURPS/ Alpha Centauri

quote: Originally posted by hexagonian Check under 'Mounted Archer' - that is the name of the unit (at least I think that is the unit that you are referring to) I checked the Great Library info and it seems to be correct. Where is the link in your game that is plugging you into the Spearman Militia?

Sorry, I had overlooked your response (I was offline, mostly). I have the notes at home about the links. I'll try to list them tonight.

	06-03-2002 19:18									#205
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quote: Originally posted by hexagonian In Userprofile.txt change NumPlayer to 17 (16 + human player) This establishes the starting number of civs in your game

etc...

Thanks, Hexagonian. I've been working too much lately to check back, but now it's my day off and I see you've got 1.3 out. I had started a game last week with the beta, but think I'll start a new one today with the new files. I love this mod!

	06-03-2002 22:00									#206
	Re: Re: Cradle 1.3 quake bug Lose 30 kilos (of popups)

quote: Originally posted by hexagonian Check under 'Mounted Archer' - that is the name of the unit (at least I think that is the unit that you are referring to) I checked the Great Library info and it seems to be correct. Where is the link in your game that is plugging you into the Spearman Militia? .

Bear in mind that I'm working with the 1.3 Beta due to Succession game concerns (unless we talk Team 1 into using 1.3, which would be great). That's why I put the message here rather than in the 1.3 thread.

GL problems, reconfirmed last night:

Slavemaster shows Slave Labor required, but the link goes to Copper Smelting (which is correct, I think).

From Horse Riding, JavCav link goes to Spearman Militia

From Mobile Tactics, "Horse Archer" link goes to Spearman Militia, and as you said the unit s/b "Mounted Archer"

I still need to copy in Ben's disaster fix (as opposed to Ben's disastrous fix) to get rid of "quake happened at x=,y=," messages.

	06-03-2002 22:37									#207
	Re: Re: Re: Cradle 1.3 quake bug Get a bigger avatar today!

quote: Originally posted by Hermann the Lombard I still need to copy in Ben's disaster fix (as opposed to Ben's disastrous fix) to get rid of "quake happened at x=,y=," messages.

Don't know how that got left in. I never debug these things properly

find and delete the line:

code:

message(1,'theQuakeEvent');

	06-03-2002 22:43									#208
	Re: Re: Re: Re: Cradle 1.3 quake bug Got spare money?

quote: Originally posted by Immortal Wombat Don't know how that got left in. I never debug these things properly

Thanks, O Noble Marsupial!

The trouble is that debugging these things "properly" requires nearly-infinite time. After all, that's why Microsoft lets us find the bugs in their allegedly-post-beta products...not that I *ever* do that to MY users. Oh no not me! Never!

	07-03-2002 19:48									#209
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Hermann,

Thanks for the info about the Great Library inconsistencies. Out of all the files in the game, that one is the hardest to catch everything, because the file is so large and does have so much info that has to match up.

Thankfully, any file flaws in the Great Library usually do not affect game stability.

Attached are the updated Great Library files, and they have also been added to the current 1.3/Victory update that is now available at my site.

Attachment: vicgl.zip
This has been downloaded 7 time(s).

Last edited by hexagonian on 07-03-2002 at 21:29

	07-03-2002 22:48									#210
	Get a bigger avatar today!

Hex...

You're welcome, but you can take back the "thank you" if you wish, 'cause here's another I found last night:

GL: Currency shows prereq of Trade and Copper Smelting, but Trade is a prereq of Copper Smelting.