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Gen.Dragolen
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Wes,
I have a suggestion to aid with the numbers of slaves that accumulate after a protracted war. Only when you conquer a city with slaving units, then as part of the population loss from refugees, you take slaves as well, or take the whole population, save 10000 souls.
This would correspond to what has happened in history. Most of the people in combat units could expect to die when their unit or army routed and were persued by the victor. Actual combat casualties would be light until their morale broke. This applied up until WW1. After that, whole units could be wiped out with automatic weapons and artillery before their morale could break.
I think that it shouldn't be too hard to modify one of the SLIC's to have X% of the population run as refugees and the rest be taken as slaves to the nearest cities. If it leaves just 1-2 population point in the city, great. I wouldn't want what happened with one city in my last serious action, where it was 1 original population and 8 slaves. You would allow only about 25% of the population in a city to be slaves - too expensive/ impractical to manage many more.
And Bluevoss makes a good point about Carthage. Slaves would be another Trade Good. But that will wait for another post.
General Dragolen
Good Hunting!
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WesW
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Florence, Al., USA
Jan 1970
time: 23:15
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Well, if there are too many slaves in the game, I could remove the enslavement ability from mounted units and the victory enslavement ability from the Slaver. This would leave the Swordsman and Heavy Swordsman and ground Elite units as the only units with the ability to get slaves from battles.
I usually use mounted units as my quick reaction force to Barbarian attacks, so this would remove many of the early slaves you get. I normally only used ground attack units when attacking cities or in major battles with other civs, so this may give us the right setting. Removing the victory line from the Slaver would get rid of the human advantage of stacking Slavers for battles, which is something the AI does not do.
It is not possible to select a percentage chance of getting slaves from battles. The text flag is simply an on/off flag. Wouter would be the one to answer as far as any slic triggers, but I am not aware of any that would create slaves after a battle.
Also, you might want to reduce the city limits in govern.txt if you play with a lot of civs, say 16, on a gigantic map. If the average AI runs out of space to peacefully expand after 6 or 8 cities, then that is what you need to set the limits at for Monarchy, City State and Theocracy. Once you find those limits, you would need to reduce other governments by a similar percentage.
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Huysmans_666
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Somewhere over the Rainbow ........
Jan 2001
time: 05:15
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Hi guys,
Been a long time since I was last here, went abroad for a while, but now I'm back and I've been playing the updated 1.1 version for a week now.
I'm goin' to give my impressions now and I hope that I don't say some things you all already discussed...if so sorry !
It's looking great, especially the empires of the AI are much more compact than they used to be, before it was "a few cities all over the place" thus creating choatic map outlooks.
Know they're tightly joined together makign a real empire.
Futhermore the terraforming still seems to be a problem, I've read a post somewhere.
The diplomacy doesn't seems for me to have changed a lot... maybe I'm wrong and offended someones work....I'm sorry !
All the new units now work, last of my version, most of the extra units did not even appear !? But ok now !  
Well, I can say this refugee trigger is great, real war-like scenario !
AI doesn't seems to use the stealth units a lot, clerics, spies, slavers and such a lot ?! 
Oh BTW, these are my experiences in a 7 civ impossible game on a custom HUGE map (140x120) or somethin'
Also, where is everybody gone, locutus, paul, etc. they gone from the scene or what ?! 
And indeed what I've read, I'm close to the english, and they did not build one coastal citie, neither did the other AI's so I'm roaming the sees by myself
How are two nations at war goin'to conquer each other when they are on different isles ?!?!?
The human player can easily win this way ! 
What happend to all the other mods, are they still being updated or is evryone busy with medmod ?!
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Bluevoss
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Orlando, Florida
Dec 2000
time: 05:15
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Cube,
Is there any chance you could post that advances file to a site someplace were we could get it? Or could you send me a copy to bluevoss@bellsouth.net? I'd really like a shot at that. Right now, I hit the modern age feeling pretty proud of myself, and come out 50 years late and feeling stupid.
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Bluevoss
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Orlando, Florida
Dec 2000
time: 05:15
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Cube,
Thanks loads for the file - I'll put it in tonight.
I just finished a game about 10 minutes ago. I had 40 cities and the other civs (that I allowed to survive) had about 3 each. At the end of the game, I was still only about 20-30 years beyond our time. Nice graphics of me winning with war walkers and all that - IF ONLY!
So I'll pop in your file and give it a spin. Also, bigger maps for better opponents. Cant wait!
THanks again!
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Cube
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El Paso, Tx
Nov 2000
time: 22:15
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I think I migh have figured out why the AI cities are so unhappy, they don't build enough happines buildings. I was using cheat mode yesterday, and saw that the AIs have at most +5 hapiness from buildings, but on average they have about +3 hapiness from buildings. My suggestion is to add happiness buildings to the production build list, other build list that are likely to add unhappiness. I for one almost always have to build a movie theater, or a stadium after I build the oil refinery. You could also try to move the happiness sequence up in buildlist sequences.txt, or incease the priority for happiness in strategies.txt.
well this is pretty pathetic I'm talking to myself. Could someone please post. I know 3 people have downloaded my file, could you post your results. I don't want to keep this post alive by talking to myself, but I will if I have to.  Why is no one posting, is there a problem posting to this thread or something or are you to busy palying the game.
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Cube
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El Paso, Tx
Nov 2000
time: 22:15
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well I'm back.
First I'd like to express my sympathies and condolences to the people who lost someone, in this tragedy, and say that we will overcome this.
It's good to see someone posting to this thread again.
So far in my game I'm in 2060 ad or so and I still think I'm behind in tech to where I should be, but I'm still the most advanced nation. I recently discovered neural interface and enacted Virtual Democracy (VD), expecting an increase in science, but it only increased a slight amount. The thing is now with VD when I set a scientist in a city it gives about 40 something science instead of the 30 something of democracy. My production also seems to have increased and the tolerance for pollution decreased. This teamed up with the fact that Neural interface obsoletes the public park caused me to add about 2 or 3 entertainers to my production cities and my cities that were at 74 happiness. Now I could build the VR Amusement Park, so I did that in my 3 or 4 top production cities, and also built happiness buildings in my other unhappy cities. All in all this happiness problem lasted for about 15 to 20 years to solve.
once I built the VR Amusement parks though I realized I could build more production buildings so I did. until now I could only build nuclear plants in my mid productiion cities, but now I could build them there if I add the recycling plant and maybe the VR Amusement Park. Apperantly the happiness buildings are designed to allow you to build all the production buildings and have few or no happiness problems, but since I added the electric plant, I needed to increase happiness, so I addeded 1 happiness to the movie theater, and 1 to the VR Amusement Park. I also made it so the airport actually produces pollution by adding 10% population pollution. I also think mass transit will last for a very long time and won't be replaced by eco-transit, so I got rid of the obsolete advance, and combined the upkeeps for mass transit, and eco-transit into one, so now it will cost the same to have both of them as it did when mass transit went obsolete.
I have been noticing that the AI civs are going broke, and most of them have a negative budget, even the ones tha used to be profitable are now losing money and their aqueducts are now being sold. Does any know if there's a way to make it so aqueducts and other growth improvements can't be sold. I did some calculations of how much gold AI civs are lossing now that they have both granaries and food silos in most of their cities. They have about 200 or so citizens each and if all their cities have food silos and granaries that means they are losing about 400 or so gold. Does any one know if gold per citizen is added to science, or is it just added to the surplus like trade gold. I decided to get rid of the -1 gold per citizen from the granary and food silo and give them set upkeeps, they now have 4 and 10 upkeep. I also lowered upkeeps for other buildings like the stadium.
I also noticed that happiness is still a problem, Most of the AI civs aren't building upgadred happiness buildings for some reason and the changes I made to strategies.txt aren't enough, so I added 10 percent more entertainers. Now size 10 cities will have 1 entertainer and size 20 cities 2 entertainers and so on.
It's sad to hear about wes leaving, I was so looking forward to the crusades. He made call to power 2 worth playing, I for one decided not to buy civ 3 when I heard theres no future gameplay, and no PW. I was expecting to have civ3 be like ctp2 but better, from what I've heard though I think I won't like it. I have enjoyed playing medmod despite all the problems I reported, but that was just done to aid medmod and hopefully make it better. Wes I'd like to say that If you're still here, you could give the medmod project to some one else, because I really want to see it finished. I for one couldn't handle such extreme modding, but you could release your recent changes and plans for the crusades, and we could finish it.
Well I know of no way to attach 2 files, so I'll attach buildings.txt and then post again with strategies.txt.
 Attachment: mm2_buildings.txt
This has been downloaded 3 time(s).
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Bluevoss
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Orlando, Florida
Dec 2000
time: 05:15
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Cube,
Before I pull these down, can you tell me exactly what these files do? Is this strictly for AI improvements to entertainers & happyness?
Whenever I play CTP2, its right around the time of gunpowder that the AI falls on its face. They can usually limp to ironclads, but generally, they stall there. And like you, I find myself well ahead of everyone else, but well behind "history" when I use MedMod and hit the information age.
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hexagonian
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Gnawing on your mind...
Jun 1999
time: 23:15
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quote:
Originally posted by Bluevoss
Whenever I play CTP2, its right around the time of gunpowder that the AI falls on its face. They can usually limp to ironclads, but generally, they stall there. And like you, I find myself well ahead of everyone else, but well behind "history" when I use MedMod and hit the information age. |
Bluevoss,
Try this - I believe this will make a difference. I pulled these settings from MM_Diffdb.txt from the section 'Very Hard'. I do not know if you are using that level or Impossible, but the numbers below are the settings for the AI in terms of bonuses.
# % amount to multiply advance cost by per age for ai
AI_MIN_BEHIND_TECHNOLOGY_COST 1.0 1.0 1.0 1.0 1.0
AI_MAX_BEHIND_TECHNOLOGY_COST 0.4 0.4 0.4 0.4 0.4
# % amount to multiply production cost by per age for ai
AI_MIN_BEHIND_PRODUCTION_COST_ADJUSTMENT 1.0 1.0 1.0 1.0 1.0
AI_MAX_BEHIND_PRODUCTION_COST_ADJUSTMENT 0.4 0.4 0.4 0.4 0.4
# multiplier for gold collected for ai
AI_MIN_BEHIND_GOLD_ADJUSTMENT 1.0 1.0 1.0 1.0 1.0
AI_MAX_BEHIND_GOLD_ADJUSTMENT 1.4 1.4 1.4 1.4 1.4
# % amount to multiply advance cost by per age for ai
AI_MIN_AHEAD_TECHNOLOGY_COST 1.0 1.0 1.0 1.0 1.0
AI_MAX_AHEAD_TECHNOLOGY_COST 1.1 1.1 1.1 1.1 1.1
# % amount to multiply production cost by per age for ai
AI_MIN_AHEAD_PRODUCTION_COST_ADJUSTMENT 1.0 1.0 1.0 1.0 1.0
AI_MAX_AHEAD_PRODUCTION_COST_ADJUSTMENT 1.1 1.1 1.1 1.1 1.1
# multiplier for gold collected fo ai
AI_MIN_AHEAD_GOLD_ADJUSTMENT 1.0 1.0 1.0 1.0 1.0
AI_MAX_AHEAD_GOLD_ADJUSTMENT 0.9 0.9 0.9 0.9 0.9
The settings reflect the following. Take the line
AI_MIN_AHEAD_TECHNOLOGY_COST 1.0 1.0 1.0 1.0 1.0
as my example. This line says when the AI is slightly ahead of you, its tech costs will be normal - i.e. what you pay is what the AI will pay for tech. If you change the line to
AI_MIN_AHEAD_TECHNOLOGY_COST 0.8 0.8 0.8 0.8 0.8
this means that the AI will only have to pay 80% of the costs to get the next advance - at least this is how I think it works. Now if you apply that logic to all of the other lines in this block of copy, you can give the AI an artificial boost across the board in all areas. Bottom line, the AI should not lag behind throughout the course of the game. It may be a cheat in favor of the AI, but it is a necessary one for all civ-style games. They all have it, and I expect civ3 will have it too.
Wes's changes were very conservative I thought, not only on these numbers, but also on starting AI tech, settlers and so forth - to compare, take a look at Cradle's numbers. Once you catch the AI in those areas, then you can out-strategize it easily. If anything, I have had a difficult time catching the AI on tech in my games because of those initial settings. But I believe that making those changes will help MedMod too.
When CTP2 was released, the creators did something which in theory, should of worked but didn't, When the AI had a sizable lead, they penalized it, making the costs for the AI to research, and produce things higher than for the human. What this was supposed to do was prevent the AI from running away, but since the human player usually manages his cities better, he was able to catch up quickly and then surpass the AI. By the time the reverse penalties (when the AI was far behind) kicked in, the human was mopping up the map with technologically superior forces.
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Cube
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El Paso, Tx
Nov 2000
time: 22:15
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Hi bluevoss,
I just changed the entertainers to 0.2 percent, but I had to take this from farmers and sometimes science. I also made it so low growth cities use laborers, since they are usually small. I changed the building priorities for personalities. Science personalities now have a priority for science building just below growth, I think I made it 8000-9000, since it makes sense that a science oriented civ would want to build science buildings. I also Increased the production priority for militant civs since they need production for a large army. I changed some of the number for the goals for ecotopian civs and others. I increased the priority for corporate actions a bit for all personalities, since I saw they were building corporate branches and not using them. I increase the slaving priority for militant civs since it's more likely they would want slaves. I increased the priority for eco terror nano terror and create park for the ecotopian civs to 50 thousand each. if this upset someone in light of what happen I'm sorry, but this was done before the tragedy. How exactly are ecotopian civs supposed to get to a tech level sufficient enough to create eco terrorist and eco rangers if they are always last in tech  ? I can see them getting to naturalism, but they wil most likely never get to gaia theory, or whatever's needed for the ecoranger.
The buildings.txt file contains all the changes I mentioned above.
Note: it contains the electric plant, blacksmith and skyscrapers. so you will have to restart if you don't have them. The electric plant is a prerequisite for many buildings so you have to build it in the later ages.
Is it just me or are there no dead tiles in the game. I reduced local pollution to 500 and have yet to see any dead tiles. Can any one who's finished a game tell me if they have seen dead tiles. I rememeber once in my first game unmoded I saw a city with most of it's tiles destroyed by pollution, this guy was total bastard when it came to pollution, he had like 600 or so in four or five of his cities, but now that would just barely be considered toxic. Shouldn't dead tiles start appearing sometime in 1950 or so. From what I know the conservation movement started because lots of cities were producing dead lands and dead rivers.
Hexagonia,
I'll try to do what you said to the diffdb file and see if it helps, but in order to do this I'll have to start a new game with all the changes I have made since my files are now very different since when I started my current game. in this game I think I will have less civs since now only two civs have 20+ cities, me and the orange AI. I'll download cradle soon and see what I can Add to medmod, mostly the unit upgrader. I also have Apolyton Pack(AP) and am playing to see if I can add something to medmod from AP.
Last edited by Cube on 16-09-2001 at 01:00
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Cube
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El Paso, Tx
Nov 2000
time: 22:15
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well I'm sure it does nothing, but what if it does do something. If you want great library entries and unit icon entries go to my new buildings post, but this version(the one here) has all the buildings that would need an electric plant with the prerequisite electric plant lines and more changes I've made. the thing is that with the electric plant having it's enabling advance be electricity it gets discovered sometime around 1830-1845. I was thinking of making it electrification, but that also gives the movie theater(which requires the electric plant) and I didn't know where to put the movie theater if I change the electric plant's enabling advance to electrification.
I would also change it so the urban planner builds cities with electric plants and get rid of the courthouse since it goes obsolete with criminal code, but still gets built in planned cities after you discover it. Does anyone know if it's possible to make a code that destroys obsolete buildings when you capture a city from a player that can still build them?
Has anyone noticed that AI civs have very low production? In my current game I have 7000 to 8000 production, and the AI civs have at most 3000 production and some of them are in the Information age. I only have one agressive AI, the egyptians, but they only have 2 cities now. They also have very obsolete units ie. phalanx fyrdman and bowmen, even though they are in the modern age. I don't know why the swedish don't finish them of since they took most of their cities. Janilex(spelling) would be very happy about that even though they only had about 7 cities. I have also seen this with other civs they keep very obsolete units. I hope Hexagonia's unit updater fixes this, but if they don't have enough production their units will be disbanded.
Hexagonia,
why don't you move to a server that allows resuming of downloads, or ask geocities to let you do that. I have a 56 k modem and a very bad connection, but it's free what did I expect.
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Cube
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El Paso, Tx
Nov 2000
time: 22:15
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Martin,
I didn't think about zip until I finished posting.
Well here's a game update, current year 2070 AD.
I went to war with the persians with the persians in my last update, but I forgot to mention it. the bastards were pirating my trade routes, I askedhem to stop, they said yes after I threatened, and they did it again.  So I decided to go to war with them to show them I wasn't kidding. I took two of their small cities quite easily, since they only had musketers and cannon and I had Machine gunners, self propelled guns, and tanks and I did it on alert status. Well I didn't want to take any more cities so I just tried to stop attacking them, until they asked for peace. Eventually they did so, I said yes, and lowered my status to peace.
Well here comes a really interesting part, I have been trying to get the incans(orange civ, 31 cities) to a regard high enough to offer an alliance, and they did. Then a few turns later they send a proposal that says attack the mayas to honor our military pack. I said yes thinking, I'll just say yes and not attack, and it went to war with the mayas automatically. Shouldn't it wait for me to attack before it goes to war? well They will make a good test for my battle tanks, and war walkers which I am about to discover. What happens If I say no to attacking a civ, does it break the alliance or does it just lower my regard.
A few turns after I signed the the cease fire with the persians, they pirated again, so I called in the Incans to attack them for us and they said yes, but that might have been a mistake since I think they are already at war with the persians. Oh well!
I also asked for an advance trade[super conducter(Incans), digital Encryption(me)] and they asked for gold instead(3300) and I said yes. Something wierd, I discovered robotics in 2030 or so. of course I was avoiding it because it obsolete the factory, so that might explain it. I think the reason the Incans aren't attacking themayans is they have to many cities. Should I give them Virtual Democracy? I also have an Alliance with the Indians, but don't remember if I've mentioned it. This gave is really good diplomatically. Thanks Dale. Now I should be able to have enough space to build the Gaia controller, once I have some sea cities, mayan, persian cities, and access to build obelisk in my Allies territory.
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WesW
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Florence, Al., USA
Jan 1970
time: 23:15
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Hi everyone. I have been checking in periodically, but I have been spending most of my online time reading about the recent bombings.
As far as the Medmod, I have been waiting on some things to come in from people, and I believe that most all of it has now. I will be releasing a version of the Crusade! mod as a beta. The code should be stable, and it will allow players to customize it to their own tastes (you will more of what I mean when I post the files.)
Once the beta is released, I will be bowing out of the mod-making community for the time being. There have been major changes in my life in the last couple of months. The short story is that I am able to lead more of a normal life now than I ever have since I was a child. It is still tough a lot of the time, though, and my increased activities leave me worn out most days. I used to do my mod work when I did not feel like going out with friends or making my school classes or attending church activities. Now I am able to do these things regularly for the first time in my adult life, but unfortunately I do not have the energy to continue my mod work in addition to these new activities.
I think we have done about all that can be done with the game as far as innovations and major improvements to the game. I hope that people like Pedrunn and Cube continue to playtest the mod and refine its settings. I think that the list of improvements in the Crusade! beta will be a fitting way for the Medpack to go out, and I hope that players continue to enjoy it for a long time to come.
One other topic that I think everyone will be interested in:
I have been thinking about what to do with the donations that have been trickling in over the last couple of months.
Rather than trying to divide the funds among the mod developers, I have decided to donate the $165 that has been sent in so far to the relief fund for victims of the Trade Center bombings. The Medmod has always been a labor of love, and I think it fitting that the funds donated to it should be given away in that same spirit, one of love.
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Cube
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El Paso, Tx
Nov 2000
time: 22:15
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Hi Bluevoss,
Have you Been reading my post? If you have you've noticed my game is really good. The Orange Civ(Incans) and Pink Civ(Indians) have been keeping up in science, even though I rarely give them advances. The Indians built Galileo's Telescope and for a while they were researching faster than I was(in the late industrial and early modern age), and the Incans just expanded really fast. Maybe some of the pathethic civs should have a higher priority for building science wonders.
I do agree with your idea though, some of the civs in my game are very pathetic science wise and if i wasn't keeping them up by giving them advances they would be even more pathetic. Try this:
open MM2_diffdb and change the science cost line from
AI_MIN_BEHIND_TECHNOLOGY_COST 0.8 0.8 0.8 0.8 0.8
AI_MAX_BEHIND_TECHNOLOGY_COST 0.3 0.3 0.4 0.4 0.4
TO
AI_MIN_BEHIND_TECHNOLOGY_COST 0.8 0.8 0.8 0.8 0.8
AI_MAX_BEHIND_TECHNOLOGY_COST 0.4 0.4 0.3 0.3 0.3
Note: This is in very hard If you're playing Imposible it won't work.
this seems to make sense since it reduces the cost for advances of the later ages and makes early advances harder to research but they don't cost much.
I just realized something else in the line
# % amount to multiply advance cost by per age for ai
AI_MIN_AHEAD_TECHNOLOGY_COST 0.9 0.9 0.9 0.9 0.9
AI_MAX_AHEAD_TECHNOLOGY_COST 1.0 1.0 1.0 1.0 1.0
It's penilizing the AI since I changed the top one to 0.8
I'm going to change it to:
# % amount to multiply advance cost by per age for ai
AI_MIN_AHEAD_TECHNOLOGY_COST 0.8 0.8 0.8 0.8 0.8
AI_MAX_AHEAD_TECHNOLOGY_COST 0.8 0.8 0.8 0.8 0.8
Does changing Diffdb, require me to restart, or can I continue a game.
I can read slic now, can't write it well though. I'll open up Dale's slic file and see if I can figure it out, and hopefully I might be able to edit it succesfully. I'm about to enter the genetic age and it's 2100 AD should I change the end year to 2300, or can I win the science victory before 2200?
Edit: Just realized something on impossible you can make the min behind tech cost decrease as ages pass, just like in very hard.
change it to:
# % amount to multiply advance cost by per age for ai
AI_MIN_BEHIND_TECHNOLOGY_COST 0.8 0.7 0.6 0.5 0.5
AI_MAX_BEHIND_TECHNOLOGY_COST 0.25 0.25 0.25 0.25 0.25
That will help if you're playing Impossible, If you're playing very hard do what I said above this.
Last edited by Cube on 24-09-2001 at 23:51
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Bluevoss
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Orlando, Florida
Dec 2000
time: 05:15
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Cube,
Thanks for the vals - I'll pop them in the file and give them a try. Hopefully, someone can tell us if we need something special to make the new values "take" in a saved game.
Been so busy recently - hope to get a little time this weekend for some tinkering.
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22-08-2001 02:39
If you have an average of 2500-3000 science through the modern age it will take you about 100 years or more to finish. 
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I wish I had a Real Life. how I envy you. I've been trying to get one since senior year in high school(1 or 2 years ago), but it's hard.
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