10-08-2001 19:03									#31
	Got spare money?

hey I already posted that!

	10-08-2001 19:03									#32
	Support Apolyton buy from Amazon

I switched to 1024 today for a few minutes to practice for civ 3.

The screen is fuzzy.

I guess I could afford a new monitor but I DON'T WANT TO!!!!

In AoE II (that I made the mistake of buying) the 800x600 (that I have for win98) and the constant scrolling made me nauseated. I fear what a 1024 would do...

I don;t want to upgrade to the 21th century I'm fine here!!!

I kick as* in all other specifications by a 3 times greater than required system. But the monitor damn it!!!

Maybe I can find some poor fool who would buy my 15' monitor.. (Greek Daemonium in action :evilgrin

	10-08-2001 19:04									#33
	Support Apolyton, buy GURPS/ Alpha Centauri

quote: I am also ashamed to be behind the line, Sabreth, but I believe I'm not quite in a minority. In monitor age, I'm in minority, no doubt, but as for the resolution, I'm not, as there are some more people wanting to run 800x600.

They may want to, but they are capable of much more. The game will look and work better in 1024, even if 800x600 is possible. Plus, as I said, the game will look much different from other programs at that resolution and, with a new (read not-so-old) monitor, will most likely not hurt people's eyes/make them vomit/whatever. Again, I'm sorry you're being left behind , but there's nothing anybody can do.

Hurry up and answer him, Dan, we're tired of his whining.

	10-08-2001 19:10									#34
	Get a bigger avatar today!

Oooops! I just discovered that I have a 17' monitor

The manual that I managed to dig out says so....

But the screen is fuzzy. I'll reconfigure the hell out of it, maybe it will get better?

	10-08-2001 19:13									#35
	Support Apolyton, buy Alpha Centauri

Maybe your eyes have gone bad from staring at that 800x600 crap, paiktis.

	10-08-2001 19:31									#36
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization 2

quote: Originally posted by Sabre2th Maybe your eyes have gone bad from staring at that 800x600 crap, paiktis.

hehe! All I know is that I will indulge in heavy reconfiguring!! I'll exploit everything this monitor has to offer to the last of its photon particle before I upgrade.

Unfortunately I'm not in front of it to start my experiments (that some times have unpredictable results )

One thing I noticed when I switched to the 1024 is that there is no flickering but the letters are very small and somewhat fuzzy (not as clear as in the 800x600). On the other hand I could see much more messages of Apolyton in one screen which was pretty cool!

Actually, I have this computer for 6 reasons:

_word processing
_e-mails
_MP3's
_Apolyton
_civ 1,2,3
_FPS mutliplayer some times

(not necessairily in that order )

It has to fullfill its 6 goals

	10-08-2001 19:48									#37
	Support Apolyton buy from Amazon

This has got to be the most pathetically whining thread I have ever seen here. Next thing we'll here is a class-action lawsuit from those with Pentium 133.

There is nothing wrong with staying at 480x320 or P-133 or whatever, you just have to accept the consequences of your limitations. And the others were right, the dot pitch does NOT change when switching resolutions. 1024x768 on a 19" is the same as 800x600 on a 15" monitor. It is not about resolution but the interferance pattern from the monitor to your eyes. There are many other options available.

So quit whining and figure out a solution instead of wasting space here and blaming others.

	10-08-2001 19:57									#38
	Get a bigger avatar today!

quote: Originally posted by Snapcase Monitors are one of those components that do not drop in price dramatically at the same reverse exponential rate as most hardware

That means a CRT has a long investment life

quote: Originally posted by Snapcase and it's often not the priority during an upgrade. When I ask myself what would increase gaming performance the most- a 17" monitor or that extra DIMM of RAM and that nice new processor I've been looking at I know what the answer is, at least for me.

Silly CRT, keyboard, and mouse are the three pieces of hardware to which I pay most attention, since these are the parts I'm constantly in contact with. An increase in RAM will rarely increase performce and increase in processor speed will only marginly help.

quote: Originally posted by Snapcase Plus, most office machines have small monitors, especially laptops. All the machines at my University (where I plan to play multiplayer games of Civ3) have 15" monitors that look pretty horrid at 1024*768.

My 15" monitor looks great at 1024*768 and I have it for 4 years. Invest in a good CRT and you can squeeze a lot of use out of it. Always go for the best you can afford: NEC, Sony, Mishubishi, Eizo, etc.

	10-08-2001 20:02									#39
	Support Apolyton, pre-order Civilization IV

quote: Originally posted by Steve Clark So quit whining and figure out a solution instead of wasting space here and blaming others.

It's my game and I'll whine if I want to, whine if I want to, whine if I want to, you would whine too if it happened to you. So there!

Explain plz: interference pattern from our monitors to our eyes?

That would be constructive

	10-08-2001 20:10									#40
	Got spare money?

No dang clue what he's talking about.

How could your 17" CRT be fuzzy at 1024x768? Remember to select the highest refresh rate possible, and also non-interlaced.

	10-08-2001 20:18									#41
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization: The Boardgame

quote: Originally posted by Urban Ranger No dang clue what he's talking about. How could your 17" CRT be fuzzy at 1024x768? Remember to select the highest refresh rate possible, and also non-interlaced.

It is how eyes respond to the constant refresh rate. It is a combination of that, with being non-interlaced (I forget exactly what that is), the dot pitch, the screen glass (some are darker than others), distance from your eyes to the screen and also just as important: brightness and contrast and focus. Some just can't view a CRT screen (like a monitor or TV) without seeing flickering (LCD screens would be better). It's not really about resolution (unless you can't read small text and in windows, you can put in large text) but about many other factors.

	10-08-2001 20:36									#42
	Increase the size of your Attachments

Non-interlaced means the screen is refreshed vertically line by line. Interlaced refreshes the odd numbered lines on the first pass and even number lines on the second pass. Non-interlaced is more stable.

	10-08-2001 21:04									#43
	Inflate your Upload Space

i'm using 1400 x 1050 resolution with ibm 15" lcd monitor and i don't feel anything bad. in fact, when i lower the resolution, everything look fuzzy.

but then again, i would accepy smaller characters rather than scrolling too much.

i believe that the civ 3 can be played at 800 x 600 resolution, based on my experience with psx emulators. the graphics for the orginal playstation is 640 x 480 but emulators for the pc can displaay it at whatever resolution. so i guess Solver's problem may still be hopeful for a solution.

	10-08-2001 22:16									#44
	Increase Your PM Length

Yes, Dan, or Jeff, or whomever wake up.
Paiktis, in AoE 2 you need to scroll all the time, no matter what your resoltuion is, I tried that. Most scrolling game 2000, for me.

	11-08-2001 00:24									#45
	Support Apolyton buy from Amazon

Today's paper. Fry's Electronics 17" monitor, .27mm dot pitch, $88 (after rebate). Spectacles are reasonably priced too.

	11-08-2001 11:02									#46
	Avatar Enlargement: We've got the solution

Ha Ha suckers I solved my resolution problem. I have a laptop with a S3 SavageIX (lucky) that can easily display 1024x768 but the dumb laptop screen can only display 800x600 without going into virtual desktop mode. But I just plug in a monitor and I'm back on track. A $3000 price tag for a new desktop turns into a $100 tag for a 17" monitor. I hope though that Win XP doesn't conflict with Civ3, but it shouldn't if it works with Win2000.

	11-08-2001 11:07									#47
	Support Apolyton, pre-order Civilization IV

quote: Originally posted by vancomycin i'm using 1400 x 1050 resolution with ibm 15" lcd monitor and i don't feel anything bad. in fact, when i lower the resolution, everything look fuzzy.

That's not a standard resolution mode and screws up the aspect ratio to boot.

At any rate most LCD screens tend to be fuzzy if you don't use them at their maximum resolution. Only the best ones have licked this problem.

	11-08-2001 13:38									#48
	Suffering from ads?

quote: Originally posted by Urban Ranger That's not a standard resolution mode and screws up the aspect ratio to boot. At any rate most LCD screens tend to be fuzzy if you don't use them at their maximum resolution. Only the best ones have licked this problem.

1400*1050 may be an unusual resolution, but it does not screw up the aspect ratio, which remains comfy at 4:3.

	11-08-2001 14:24									#49
	Increase the size of your Attachments

Solver, I too had nostalgic feelings about my once brandnew 286. But I soon found out that you MUST upgrade once. Because software developers do not care about sentiments...

Firaxis HAS already stated their system requirements, so officially you cannot play it at 800x600.

What you can do unofficially has nothing to do with them.

	11-08-2001 15:01									#50
	Get a bigger avatar today!

Will the Apolyton T-Shirts come in resolution 800x600? If not then I'm boycotting it!

I personally would prefer for Firaxis to design the game for a bigger screen, so more details can be seen. I'm sick and tired of things being designed for the lowest common denominator. Things that would improve my gaming experience would have to be downgraded to enable 800x600 and to me that would be a great shame especially as the solution is relatively easy...

	11-08-2001 15:45									#51
	Support Apolyton, buy Galactic Civilizations

You know what is the difference? You have to upgrade RAM/CPU, because you no longer can do job with the old ones. While, there has been no program I couldn't run on 800x600 15". This leads me to some decisions.

I am sure it is very easy to add 800x600 support.
Anyway, resolution must be in a text file, possible to edit. But a pirate copy will come first, I fear, for checking if that is the case.

	11-08-2001 16:26									#52
	Increase Your PM Length

Solver, are you kidding?! These system requirements are the LOWEST I have ever seen!
What is there to complain about?
The vast majority of the players can meet those requirements without any problems, you will simply have to adopt to the new computer standards.

	11-08-2001 18:15									#53
	Remove this text

Low for me too, except those fuc*ing resolution requirements.

	11-08-2001 18:22									#54
	Avatar Enlargement: We've got the solution

You have a
6 month old
Video Card
which will
be able to
handle the
new resol-
ution. If the
card has a
dual-head
then you
can use your
old monitor
at the same
time for MS
Word. So you
could continue
your relation-
ship with your
monitor and
neither of you
would have to
say goodbye.

I feel your
pain, Solver
(that is why
I'm writing
like this so
that you can
view it on
your monitor.)
It is time to
let go and
accept that
the world has
changed and
that your type
of love is no
longer healthy.

Look, just go
round the shops,
look at all the
nice monitors
there. I know
it is hard to
look at another
but it is time.
Touch the case,
feel how cool
the glass is,
how bright the
image shines.
You can love
again.

	11-08-2001 18:45									#55
	Support Apolyton, buy Galactic Civilizations

Well, I could view that .

	11-08-2001 19:18									#56
	To the Intel Shills . . . Avatar Enlargement: We've got the solution

I can only assume that Grim and Sparky are Intel employees.

(1) My system is three years old. Still works perfectly - why should I buy a new one? Just because processor speeds double every six months? Sorry, I don't live to pad Moore's pockets.

(2) Why exactly should games keep up with "current hardware"? Lets face it, if consumerist stooges didn't upgrade their hardware every year, game companies would HAVE to build down in order to sell enough product. Simple economics - set system requirements too high, 95% of people don't have those specs, small market for game.

(3) Of course developers could do more with less hardware if they optimized their code. This truly lost art worked miracles back in the day. But with today's processors and amount of memory, why not just let the code get sloppy - no one will notice. Well, unless your multi-tasking . . .

(4) Computers are filled with lead, mercury, plastics, etc. Where do you think out of date computers go when they get thrown out? That's right, straight into the environment - you know, the place we all live. Keeping your computer for longer periods (and disposing of it in an environmentally sound way) is being nice to the Earth. A good idea until we can all go to Alpha Centauri. Maybe people who overbuy computers should be subjected to a stiff disposal fee for their old computers. That would encourage conservation, code optimization, etc.

(5) High hardware requirements fall disproportionately on the poor. Why should the economically disadvantaged go without civ3? Is civ3 only for executives and CEOs? Why should the poor invest in a computer if it will go obscelete in six months? Planned obscelecence is just another tool for the privileged class to maintain hegemony by keeping a de jure level playing field, though not a de facto one. Planned obscelecence keeps Moore and Gates rich while shutting the door on the poor.

So why are the rest of us complaining Grim? Well, we don't like the following: paying though the nose to keep up, lazy programmers who don't optimize code, environmental degradation, and shafting low income people. Play your computer game while Rome burns if you will! I'll take a stand and keep my system another few years.

Now I will give Firaxis credit, the requirements are fairly low for a game these days. But come on, give the 800x600 people at least the ability to run the game. Think of the Earth!

	11-08-2001 21:37									#57
	Support Apolyton, buy Galactic Civilizations

For frigs sake Solver, get a new monitor. Really, the things do not cost a lot of money, I invested in upgrading my monitor many years ago because of this problem with size, and I think most people will need to at some point. Even just a decent 15" monitor will run 1024x768 OK, because the text in the game will be bigger to compensate for a higher resolution. Personally, I will be running it in 1280x1024 or maybe 1600x1200 if I get the chance. My monitor can support that resolution at even a decent refresh rate (75Hz IIRC)

	11-08-2001 23:56									#58
	Tired of ads?

ONE LINE in particular refers to you and your small screen friends Solver!

"Got a flat-screen monitor forty inches wide,
I believe that your says "Etch-A-Sketch" on the side"

http://www.com-www.com/weirdal/itsa...hepentiums.html

It's All About The Pentiums
by Al Yankovic

NOTE: Lyrics in ITALICS are sung by a female vocalist.

Lyrics:

It's all about the Pentiums, baby
Uhh, uh-huh, yeah
Uhh, uh-huh, yeah
It's all about the Pentiums, baby
It's all about the Pentiums, baby
It's all about the Pentiums! (It's all about the Pentiums, baby)
It's all about the Pentiums! (It's all about the Pentiums, baby)
Yeah

What y'all wanna do?
Wanna be hackers? Code crackers? Slackers
Wastin' time with all the chatroom yakkers?
9 to 5, chillin' at Hewlett Packard?
Workin' at a desk with a dumb little placard?
Yeah, payin' the bills with my mad programming skills
Defraggin' my hard drive for thrills
I got me a hundred gigabytes of RAM
I never feed trolls and I don't read spam
Installed a T1 line in my house
Always at my PC, double-clickin' on my mizouse
Upgrade my system at least twice a day
I'm strictly plug-and-play, I ain't afraid of Y2K
I'm down with Bill Gates, I call him "Money" for short
I phone him up at home and I make him do my tech support
It's all about the Pentiums, what?
You've gotta be the dumbest newbie I've ever seen
You've got white-out all over your screen
You think your Commodore 64 is really neato
What kinda chip you got in there, a Dorito?
You're usin' a 286? Don't make me laugh
Your Windows boots up in what, a day and a half?
You could back up your whole hard drive on a floppy diskette
You're the biggest joke on the Internet
Your database is a disaster
You're waxin' your modem, tryin' to make it go faster
Hey fella, I bet you're still livin' in your parents' cellar
Downloadin' pictures of Sarah Michelle Gellar
And postin' "Me too!" like some brain-dead AOL-er
I should do the world a favor and cap you like Old Yeller
You're just about as useless as jpegs to Hellen Keller

It's all about the Pentiums! (It's all about the Pentiums, baby)
It's all about the Pentiums! (It's all about the Pentiums, baby)
It's all about the Pentiums! (It's all about the Pentiums, baby)
It's all about the Pentiums! (It's all about the Pentiums, baby)

Now, what y'all wanna do?
Wanna be hackers? Code crackers? Slackers
Wastin' time with all the chatroom yakkers?
9 to 5, chillin' at Hewlett Packard?

Uh, uh, loggin' in now
Wanna run wit my crew, hah?
Rule cyberspace and crunch numbers like I do?
They call me the king of the spreadsheets
Got 'em printed out on my bedsheets
My new computer's got the clocks, it rocks
But it was obsolete before I opened the box
You say you've had your desktop for over a week?
Throw that junk away, man, it's an antique
Your laptop is a month old? Well that's great
If you could use a nice, heavy paperweight
My digital media is write-protected
Every file inspected, no viruses detected
I beta tested every operation system
Gave props to some, and others? I dissed 'em
While your computer's crashin', mine's multitaskin'
It does all my work without me even askin'
Got a flat-screen monitor forty inches wide,
I believe that your says "Etch-A-Sketch" on the side
In a 32-bit world, you're a 2-bit user
You've got your own newsgroup, "alt.total-loser"
Your motherboard melts when you try to send a fax
Where'd you get your CPU, in a box of Cracker Jacks?
Play me online? Well, you know that I'll beat you
If I ever meet you I'll control-alt-delete you
What? What? What? What? What?

It's all about the Pentiums! (It's all about the Pentiums, baby)
It's all about the Pentiums! (It's all about the Pentiums, baby)
It's all about the Pentiums! (It's all about the Pentiums, baby)
It's all about the Pentiums! (It's all about the Pentiums, baby)
Now, what y'all wanna do?
Wanna be hackers? Code crackers? Slackers
Wastin' time with all the chatroom yakkers?
9 to 5, chillin' at Hewlett Packard?
What??


YEAH!

	12-08-2001 09:29									#59
	Re: To the Intel Shills . . . Increase the size of your Attachments

quote: Originally posted by Mister Pleasant I can only assume that Grim and Sparky are Intel employees. (1) My system is three years old. Still works perfectly - why should I buy a new one? Just because processor speeds double every six months? Sorry, I don't live to pad Moore's pockets. (2) Why exactly should games keep up with "current hardware"? Lets face it, if consumerist stooges didn't upgrade their hardware every year, game companies would HAVE to build down in order to sell enough product. Simple economics - set system requirements too high, 95% of people don't have those specs, small market for game. (3) Of course developers could do more with less hardware if they optimized their code. This truly lost art worked miracles back in the day. But with today's processors and amount of memory, why not just let the code get sloppy - no one will notice. Well, unless your multi-tasking . . . (4) Computers are filled with lead, mercury, plastics, etc. Where do you think out of date computers go when they get thrown out? That's right, straight into the environment - you know, the place we all live. Keeping your computer for longer periods (and disposing of it in an environmentally sound way) is being nice to the Earth. A good idea until we can all go to Alpha Centauri. Maybe people who overbuy computers should be subjected to a stiff disposal fee for their old computers. That would encourage conservation, code optimization, etc. (5) High hardware requirements fall disproportionately on the poor. Why should the economically disadvantaged go without civ3? Is civ3 only for executives and CEOs? Why should the poor invest in a computer if it will go obscelete in six months? Planned obscelecence is just another tool for the privileged class to maintain hegemony by keeping a de jure level playing field, though not a de facto one. Planned obscelecence keeps Moore and Gates rich while shutting the door on the poor. So why are the rest of us complaining Grim? Well, we don't like the following: paying though the nose to keep up, lazy programmers who don't optimize code, environmental degradation, and shafting low income people. Play your computer game while Rome burns if you will! I'll take a stand and keep my system another few years. Now I will give Firaxis credit, the requirements are fairly low for a game these days. But come on, give the 800x600 people at least the ability to run the game. Think of the Earth!

1. Nobody forces you to buy a new one. For that matter, nobody forces you to play Civ 3 or even use a computer. It's your choice. So what's your point?

2. About which game are you talking? Can't be Civ 3.

3. When you optimise your code you make it either smaller or faster (there's always a trade off). But you can't optimise it to work on a slower processor. And somethings have nothing to do with optimisation.

4. Mercury? What? Many older computers are still in use. You'll be surprised that how many really old computers are still being used by companies, charitable organisations, etc. Many ones that are thrown out are recycled. Sure, there's still not enough done here, but you can't pin the blame on any single entity. It's the same thing with old cars, home appliances, etc.

5. Are you stoned? The hardware requirments for Civ 3 are at least 4 generations old. 32MB RAM? P2-300? (P2?!) Lets just say we don't use stone axes for open head surgeries.

All computers you can buy are obsolete by definition. What you can do with them is up to you. Again nobody forces you to buy one. I have a couple of i486 boxes still being used.

So maybe some of us should do some research before we talk, no?

	12-08-2001 09:50									#60
	Browse Apolyton AD-FREE

Hmmm...I have a 15" monitor that is 6 years old. I had used 800 X 600 until there was the post on the orignal SMAC UBB boards asking about resolutions. I noticed the majority of people used higher resolutions so I tried them. It was odd for a while having everything smaller, but I got acustomed to it and kept it. Of course I can't play CivIII on the computer I used to browse those boards (I'm using it right now though), but I do have a computer with a nice 19" monitor that I'm planning to use.