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dearmad
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Portland
Nov 2000
time: 05:15
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 I just don't understand the need for silos at all. I've never thought of the "city" as an actual city on the map but more the general location of serious population density. And the "scale" of CIV even on the largest maps would allow that a city square would about the size of Washintong State... plenty of room to pretend in your own mind that a "silo" exists somewhere other than "in the city of Seattle."
Sheesh, I hope Firaxis does NOT add silos- what a waste of my game playing time to add another level of interference between me and using a unit- it seems silly to me.
As for MAD, I would only want it developed as a serious investment made by a player, say as a city improvement, so that once you have spent the resources you get it- MAD represents a system, not just an idea- a system of submarines, airplanes constantly in flight, and hidden missile launch locations- that takes resources, and it oughta be a serious cash drain on any nation that would want to enact it with their missles, and it ought to be on a per-warhead basis, like 2 gold per missile per turn to keep those puppies in a ready state, maintaned, and aimed. Otherwise, I think nuking a country out of existance that wasn't prepared to spend the $$ on a MAD system is possible, I'd bet the US could do it to India at the momentwithout receiving a single counter attack.
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Pythagoras
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Charlottesville VA
Jan 1970
time: 00:15
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Hmm too include many arbitrary things like MAD tends to tear away at the core gameplay. For instance, it sort of tears away at the turn-based fiber at the game. However, MAD is a thing that needs to be considered, so heres what I propose-
Instead of turns being 1 year long, after a certain tech is researched (or just entry into the modern era), perhaps turns could be 1/3 a year and let nukes have like 4 5 or 6 movement w/ 3 or 4 turns to refuel. This way there is a really good chance of you detecting a missle (in flight), and you can get off yours. This also agrees with the reality that nuclear retaliation depends on detection and the window of oppurtunity, so if the enemy is careful enough, and you are foolish enough, you wont see the nuke coming, and you are screwed. Similarly you could do a nuclear sneak attack on the enemy. This increases the importance of having nearby nuclear forces and submarines, and makes "Cuba Missle crises" events more likely to happen.
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tniem
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Hope College
Apr 2000
time: 00:15
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I think the best way to do nukes in this game is by a seperate screen. It appears that there will be seperate menus for trade (no caravans) and espionage (no spies) so why not for nukes as well.
Any way, nukes would be missiles that could hit any target on any turn. You could use them to take out cities, take out military targets, and other places. But as soon as you submit your launch nukes command your turn is over for a time.
At this point the AI or your MP opponent get a turn to conduct diplomacy or launch their own nukes. They do not get time to move units around or build anything to counter the attacks. Under Pythagarous' proposal three turns would allow the defender to not only launch their own nukes but also move units out of attacked cities and launch a huge tatical convential war.
In the Cold War there was never time for this. Only time if a nuke was launched for a phone call or two to your allies to decide a course of action and then launch. Maybe a call to your rival that launched the nukes. And as soon as everyone has time to launch nukes than it goes back to the original person's turn to see what happened.
This would force you to deal with every situation differently. You would know that if you launch a nuke or two that you would be nuked back. It force another layer of strategy and keeps the fun level high late in the game as conventional war would be the preferred method so your own cities are not scorched. And of course using MAD as a diplomatic measure would defend yourself from conventional war as well by saying that if you fight us we will launch nukes.
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StSz
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Austria
Aug 2001
time: 06:15
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I REALLY hope that at a nuclear counter-attack (or world wide strike) all nuke impacts are shown.
It was dissapointing that in CTP2 after a attack you were not able to EXACTLY trace where and how much missles stroke in.
Just some black spots you had to search... I had to guess if that was a nuclear strike-back or pollution.
It would be also cool to have a Button which launches all pre-programmed nukes... Like in the real world if you press the big red button
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tniem
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Hope College
Apr 2000
time: 00:15
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quote:
Originally posted by dearmad
Pythagoras: I agree with you. I really hope Firaxis doesn't waste their time developing it to such a deep degree that it requires a submenu.
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I have to believe they have already developed a submenu. There is no longer it appears at least from the tech screen shots a nuke unit. So that leaves city improvements that launch nukes or a submenu. I believe that they will be using a submenu
And it makes the most amount of sense. It will reduce micromanagement. No longer will you have to move your nuke across the entire globe when in reality that nuke could have been launched and hit its target on its own. So you go to your nuke menu and build some nukes out of your tax budget. And then you make a nuke strike. The submenu will be easier, more fun as you watch nuke strike animations, and will add depth to the game (MAD).
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General Ludd
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Minion of the Dominion
Aug 2001
time: 05:15
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Uhm, this has nothing to do with backfiring. (even in real life, I doubt having a nuclear missle 'backfire' is even a realistic possibility)
It is about being able to counter attack with your nukes in the event that you are attacked with nuclear weapons, resulting in MAD (Mutual Assured Destruction) which will allow for a more realistic depiction of nuclear warfair, and opens the way for cold wars.
If you have to store your nukes in your city, or don't get to fire them before the enemies hits, you will lose all of your nukes, and will not be able to counter attack.
Though, this is only an issue with the ICBMs, the 'regular' missles should be able to give you a first strike advantage, if you are able to get close enough to launch them. Though in the case of silos, you'd still be able to have some nukes hidden away.
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korn469
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Poetic Justic
Apr 1999
time: 00:15
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quote:
Originally posted by Pythagoras
It seems like a big stretch to develop this whole nuclear war-MAD system. Its like developing a whole minigame. |
quote:
Originally posted by dearmad
Pythagoras: I agree with you. I really hope Firaxis doesn't waste their time developing it to such a deep degree that it requires a submenu.
I've never had a problem with it the way it is. |
M.A.D. doesn't have to have a submenu, it doesn't have to be complicated and M.A.D. is truly needed to rebalance nukes, which are most likely unbalanced by the addition of infinite range and most likely increased damage
in addition to increasing balance in the game, M.A.D. although it is a simple addition, can give many deep, yet subtle layers to gameplay in the modern age
i really don't see why you are opposed to M.A.D. because it is arguably as large an improvement as stacked combat
you launch a nuke, and the civ that you attacked fires back it's as simple as that...no submenus, just strategy...having to man your catapults is more micromanage for less gain than what M.A.D. is
also launching nukes from cities should be fine...a city in civ doesn't just represent the metropolitan area of a city in real life, and silo could also be represented on the map by airbases...silos are found at military bases and not just in the middle of corn fields for the most part
Last edited by korn469 on 18-08-2001 at 09:39
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15-08-2001 06:45
and well, in human history...they aren't any missiles silos in Towns, are they?? 
So silos might be in there I suppose
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for this!
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