18-08-2001 00:24									#31
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quote: Inca Empire Name: Inca Empire Leader: Atahualpha Special unit: Does anyone have suggestions? Civ Abilities: Industrious, Expansionist Amongst current Civs, Americans are industrious and Expansionist. It's something in the continent, I'm sure.

Inca special unit could be the "Inca Misslemen" +1 attack. Found info at http://www.att.virtualclassroom.org...a/Military.html
Their abilities probally should be Militaristic, Expansionist like the Zulus.

quote: Maya Empire Name: Mayapan Leader: Hmm... who would this be? There haven't been any famous-to-western-world Maya leaders in vein of Atahualpha/Montezuma. Unit: I don't know. Keep in mind, it has to be a military unit so it can trigger the Golden Age. Civ Abilities: Scientific, Religious This makes them rather like Babylonians - not too bad as an comparison, methinks.

Yax K'uk Mo' would be my choice, he founded the capitol Copan, and his dynasty ruled for 400 years. http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/nova/transcripts/2804maya.html

	18-08-2001 00:34									#32
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There's just one slight problem to Yax K'uk Whatever: No-one knows who he is.

Isn't there anyone even marginally known?

quote: Their abilities probally should be Militaristic, Expansionist like the Zulus.

Why? Besides, I think that having Mongols and Zulus gives the world all the grief it needs.

	18-08-2001 01:18									#33
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Stefu,
In your latest list, you seem to have either not seen or not agreed with some earlier comments I made. I'll post it again in case it was the former

Let me repeat and emphasise that Mamelukes cannot be the Arab special unit, since they were in fact Turkish people, not Arab. I found this on the web:

"The Mamelukes, a military, landholding aristocracy, long figured prominently in Middle Eastern history. They were originally recruited from non-Arab slaves imported to serve various traditional Muslim rulers as soldiers and officials. Typically, the erstwhile slaves assumed power themselves in time and continued to replenish their ranks by importing more military slaves. Between the 13th and 19th centuries Mameluke regimes appeared throughout the Muslim world, including India, Iraq, and most notably Egypt. Until 1382 the dominant Mamelukes were mostly of Turkish ethnic origin; after that date, the majority was generally of Circassian origin."

Then here's some more parts of the post I posted before. One change is I like the suggestion to have a cannon as the Turkish special unit, since they were early an enthusiastic users of cannons. The unit could be called the Bombard. Mameluke would be another option for them though, and Janissaries yet another.

Finally, I've always seen Suleiman's name with an i, not a y.

----

On the Carthaginian/Phoenician special unit. I'm sure India or Persia has the elephant already (the picture for the Polytheism tech is an elephant, which is wierd if no elephants are in the game). Carthage/Phoenicia was mainly a naval civ, so it should have a ship unit. The quinquereme would be a good one. It was kind of a trireme plus, and was the backbone of the Carthaginian navy.

One possiblity for an Arabian special unit would be the Cameleer. Rather than yet another horse unit, having a camel would be something more interesting, and the Arabs did use them alot. They could have special abilities on Desert and Plains (I hope the game allows that kind of thing!).

	18-08-2001 01:40									#34
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Harlan, I apparently missed them. My apologies.

Of Turks, of your choices, I'd still go for Janissaries. They fit in best with the "Golden Age" of Turks, IMHO. Bombard would also be nice.

Of Carthaginians, if Elephants aren't their unit, then some naval unit should be, I agree. Were quinquiremes exclusively used by Carthaginians? They could be like normal triremes, but with bigger movement and lesser chance of sinking, maybe?

Cameleers - hmm. I agree, it would be great if we could have units that work best with certain terrain types - finally, realistic Alpine Troops! However, if Arabs should start on non-plains, non-desert territory, it could handicap them. How about Cameleers being like Swordsman, but with all-as-road movement, especially if Firaxis makes movement in desert harder? Granted, that would create glacier-riding cameleers.

	18-08-2001 01:54									#35
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Make that Suleyman the Magnificent and the civ Ottomans not turks

or if it is the turks rather than the ottomans, make the leader Ataturk.

	18-08-2001 02:20									#36
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Ottomans is the name of ruling family, not the civilization, unless I am mistaken. Turks is the name that the nation has always been known - sometimes as Ottoman Turks.

	18-08-2001 02:46									#37
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quote: Originally posted by Stefu Ottomans is the name of ruling family, not the civilization, unless I am mistaken. Turks is the name that the nation has always been known - sometimes as Ottoman Turks.

You may very well be right on that one. I'm not sure.

On the matter of the leader, I think that during the ottoman empire there were a lot of Syleymans but it was during the reign of Suleyman the Magnificent (as he was known!) that the empire was the strongest.

Also, the «father of modern Turkey» is without doubt Ataturk (I think that's what Ataturk means: father of turks).

Suleyman the Magnificent sounds tres grandiose

	18-08-2001 05:06									#38
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Stefu,
Actually, I'm now leaning more towards Bombards for the Turks. After all, the French already have a musketman-plus type unit, whereas I doubt there will be any cannon-plus unit, so that would be better variety.

Quinqueremes were little more than bigger, tougher triremes. The Carthaginians weren't the only ones with them, but they tended to have the most of anyone. They also (together with Phoenicia) had the best naval crews, and I think quinquereme is the best way to represent that. I don't think they had any less chance of sinking though (bigger ships were often more unwieldy and more likely to sink, in fact), just better stats.

Regarding Cameleers, I think its premature to talk about terrain-specific abilities if we don't know if those exist (won't it be great though if we can have em!). But if not, Cameleers could have a bonus against other cavalry, which is a feature much more likely to be in Civ3 since it was in Civ2 (and CTP). Because of their great smell, horses would often refuse to go near camels, and/or buck wildly. In fact, now that I think of it, frightening away horses was a main advantage of elephants too.

I still think there must be a better name for the Viking empire than any mentioned so far - though I can't think of it! Any more ideas?

Paiktis22,
The Turkish civilization goes way back. They were a prominent Mongol-like people in Central Asia over a thousand years before the Ottoman empire came to be. So I think its best to call them Turks, and the Ottoman empire was just one phase in their long history. The country of Turkey is another, and not the only Turkish country today. The Turks are still very prominent in Central Asia after all this time. One of the countries there now in fact is called Turkmenistan.

	18-08-2001 05:24									#39
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quote: Originally posted by Harlan Paiktis22, The Turkish civilization goes way back. They were a prominent Mongol-like people in Central Asia over a thousand years before the Ottoman empire came to be. So I think its best to call them Turks

I knew they were tough m*thers if they were able to beat us and our Byzantium

Seriously, aren't there a lot of kind of turks? Like the ottoman turks, the seltucan (sp?) turks etc etc?

Still, given what you said I agree that turks are a good name for their civ.

	18-08-2001 10:24									#40
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quote: Originally posted by joseph1944 Echinda is correct, some people at this site that may not take this serious, however there are people in this world that would take naming him in a game very serious. I would let it drop. Keep in mine the Iranian that wrote the book questioning the Koran, they put a bounty on his head for doing so.

In any case muhammed died before the arab breakout beyong Arabia. I would suggest one of the early caliphs, except i cant seem to recall the names off the top of my head. Which is precisely the problem, and why Saladin should be the arab leader. (certainly not Saddam)

LOTM

	19-08-2001 21:32									#41
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Any more suggestions?

	20-08-2001 07:02									#42
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The whole Arab civ needs to be customised so the Islam religion can be portrayed according to the beliefs of the religion. For example:

Cathedral -> Mosque?
J.S.Bach's Cathedral -> A different name if built by the Arabs?
Crusaders -> The Arab version would have crescents on their shields instead of crosses. This is where I would insert the Arab special unit. I would make these kick serious butt with a +2 attack bonus. The Arabs built the best swords in the world in medieval times. The secrets of Damascus steel were only recently uncovered by scientific research.
Female leader -> Probably would appear in a veil, if there is a female leader at all.

	20-08-2001 16:08									#43
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Actually there was some muslim dynasty which was matrilinear - but I can't remember it. I think it was in Persia though