04-10-2001 22:55									#31
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quote: Originally posted by Mark L Joan wasn't even a ruler!! She wasn't a queen or whatever. All she was was a glorified peasent girl who lead the french to some victories (and some defeats) and got burned at the stake in the end. She didn't rule the French, never did. She never ruled anything, so she shouldn't be a leader at all.

Of course she was a crazy peasant girl who had mad visions and could not lead an army if she had to.

But this is a game. And she looks nice in a uniform.

	04-10-2001 23:01									#32
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quote: Originally posted by Mark L Yes he did. Granted, not foreign nationals, but certainly an incredible number of french royalists for no reason at all besides disagreeing with him. Same with Stalin.

Stalin was responsible for the deaths of 93 million Russians over his reign.

Did Napoleon execute dissenters among the elite? Sure. Hey, all these people did. I don't think you'd like Elizabeth I's legacy of beheading people. Dictators do kill people.

But Lincoln wasn't kind to dissenters either. Ask the newspaper publishers who were thrown into prison and deprived of habeas corpus. Does that diminish his suitability as a great leader? No.

Again...if you're looking for all the great leaders to be nice guys, it's going to be problematic with any of them.

Mao was undoubtedly the single most influential individual ruler of China. His importance is indisputable.

I say again...how can you compare Napoleon to Hitler in terms of genocide? Not even remotely similar.

	04-10-2001 23:03									#33
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quote: Originally posted by Boris Godunov Stalin was responsible for the deaths of 93 million Russians over his reign

*ahem*

Really? As they say in the OT: Source, please.

	04-10-2001 23:49									#34
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quote: Stalin was responsible for the deaths of 93 million Russians over his reign

In OT someone posted 900,000 deaths, plus 3 million more as a result of starvation.

quote: Did Napoleon execute dissenters among the elite? Sure. Hey, all these people did. I don't think you'd like Elizabeth I's legacy of beheading people. Dictators do kill people.

Napolean killed many more than just the elite. Whole towns of "royalists" where wiped out.

quote: I say again...how can you compare Napoleon to Hitler in terms of genocide? Not even remotely similar.

duh. gas chambers and terror bombing wasn't invented yet. We are talking about someone who lived 150 years before Hitler!

	05-10-2001 00:06									#35
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quote: Originally posted by KrazyHorse For the first time in a while, agreed with Chris.

I love it when your warm and fuzzy.

MarkL Stuff:

quote: In OT someone posted 900,000 deaths, plus 3 million more as a result of starvation

There are no reliable numbers on Stalin, but the very best estimate is 30 Million plus, from 1927-1953

quote: Napolean killed many more than just the elite. Whole towns of "royalists" where wiped out.

Your Extremly deficient in French history.
Your confusing Boney with Robbespierre and his Jacobins.
Their are only two accounts of Boney killing civilians, his "wiff of grapeshot" at the Paris mobs, and the Killing of plauge victims in the levant.
The Vendee revolts (Where Royalist towns were eliminated) were when Bonaprte was in Italy (In fact, he refused this assignment).

quote: duh. gas chambers and terror bombing wasn't invented yet. We are talking about someone who lived 150 years before Hitler!

Bonaparte is not comparable to Hitler.
Only someone with an axe to grind would think so.
Hitler ordered the deaths of 6,000,000+ people as part of his state policy.
Boney did no such thing.

	05-10-2001 00:16									#36
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Thierry la Fronde

	05-10-2001 00:55									#37
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Actually, a recent historical analysis of Stalin's reign (published last year, will have to delve for title and author) lays the deaths of 93 million at his door. He certainly takes the cake as far as bloody rulers.

I want to vote for the "Le Poisson" guy from The Little Mermaid. Now that was comedy.

	05-10-2001 01:05									#38
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Bonaparte, that was easy. Louis XIV comes close second. These two leaders put France on top of the world. Mitterrand would also be a nice one, although for totally different reasons.

	05-10-2001 01:35									#39
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Boney all the way!!! Of course, the one I would like to be the ruler of France the most, would be the Comte the Frou-Frou (Blackadder!)

	05-10-2001 02:13									#40
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quote: Originally posted by Chris 62 I love it when your warm and fuzzy.

You know I love you too.

The 93 million seems excessive, as the highest pop. reached by the Soviet Union in that entire period was ~150 million. Given that WWII cost ~20million lives by itself, I don't see how (with anything more than 10 years between generations) the Russians could have avoided being reduced to half their 1917 population.

	05-10-2001 02:15									#41
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In case you haven't noticed, Charles the Great IS Charlemagne

Boy, are my cheeks red. I even misspelled Charlemagne.

	05-10-2001 02:16									#42
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quote: Originally posted by St Leo In case you haven't noticed, Charles the Great IS Charlemagne Boy, are my cheeks red. I even misspelled Charlemagne.

You also misspelled Bonaparte

	05-10-2001 02:18									#43
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No he didn't. That little Corsican b@stard tried to Francify his name, but we remember.

	05-10-2001 02:38									#44
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quote: Originally posted by KrazyHorse No he didn't. That little Corsican b@stard tried to Francify his name, but we remember.

Oh! Speaking of which - historical side note.

DID YOU KNOW that Napoleon was actually of average height for his time, and that the "Napoleonic complex" is a myth?

Due to a foobar of converting the contemporary French mensuration system, people think he was a diminutive 5'2" tall. Actually, he stood at 5'5"-5'6", of perfectly normal height for the time.

AND he held his hand in his coat because he suffered from terrible stomach cramps.

AND he slept at most only 3 hours a night.

AND he and Josephine would frequently wake up the household with their loud lovemaking, and at one point they cracked the headboard of the Imperial bed.

Oh la la!

	05-10-2001 02:52									#45
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quote: Originally posted by Boris Godunov Due to a foobar of converting the contemporary French mensuration system

A FUBAR which was caused by the employment of hundreds of former hairdressers et al in the conversion from Imperial to metric. These men made numerous mistakes due to their lack of formal training, but couldn't complain given that most of their aristocratic clients no longer required their services, having lost their hair (along with their heads).

	05-10-2001 03:04									#46
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Bonaparte still sounds much more Italian/Spanish than French. So one must conclude that his attempt at "Francifying" his name also ended in utter failure