08-10-2001 21:58									#31
	Lose 30 kilos (of popups)

The next person who says that Civ2 and its expansions did not have a scripting language ought to be force-fed hours of the game. How can you say that they're isn't when there obviously is? Are you willfully blind, or mearly misinformed? The event language permitted the scenario makers to create true masterpieces, without them, Civ scenarios are mearly static and lifeless, restricted to units and initial placements alone. Without any sort of grasp to steer the stroyline forward, how can a writer finish a story or poet their poems?

Phew.... had to get that rant off my chest.

	08-10-2001 22:08									#32
	Inflate your Upload Space

quote: Originally posted by Mister Pleasant What? CTP wasn't a Sid game?

I hope you were joking!

just in case you weren't.... Absolutely NOT !!!!

	08-10-2001 22:21									#33
	Increase Your PM Length

quote: Originally posted by Anunikoba The only thing though is that Apolyton represents about 2% of the total CIV playing population. And of that 2%, only about .5% of them want a scripting language. [Figures taken from the 2001 CIV fanatic census]

You completely miss the point, A.

Obviously, that .01% can make some very interesting things for the others of us.

And that .01% (first of all it's larger than that but i know you were exaggerating) isn't just some "experts" locked away in a room or something. It's people getting interested and then getting curious - and it's just not wise for a game company to ignore those most interested in their product, just as it's not wise to ignore the more casually interested. They're not different species, casual fans get interested (good), interested fans get casual (bad).

It's irrelevent how many people do this. The point is Firaxis should want that number to grow; better for you, better for them.

Now most likely the scripting language is a tech issue for them, the game doesn't "need" it like it "needs" to work right and be fun, and i understand they can only do so much. But no company can ever match the creativity of everybody.

	09-10-2001 07:54									#34
	Got spare money?

quote: Originally posted by jackshot And that .01% (first of all it's larger than that but i know you were exaggerating) isn't just some "experts" locked away in a room or something. It's people getting interested and then getting curious - and it's just not wise for a game company to ignore those most interested in their product, just as it's not wise to ignore the more casually interested. They're not different species, casual fans get interested (good), interested fans get casual (bad). Now most likely the scripting language is a tech issue for them, the game doesn't "need" it like it "needs" to work right and be fun, and i understand they can only do so much. But no company can ever match the creativity of everybody.

I for one AM in favor of a scripting language- never said I wasn't. I am just in defense of the fact that most people that play the game are not modders, scenario makers, or involved with either in terms of playing mods or scenarios.

And as you mention,"Now most likely the scripting language is a tech issue for them, the game doesn't "need" it like it "needs" to work right and be fun, and i understand they can only do so much."

Firaxis' first priority is, of course, making the game great and run smooth. The choice to not have a SL may not have been theirs to make, but may also be due to time constraints.


But who knows- there may still be something along the lines of CivII's event.txt in CivIII.

And actually, my percentage figures, though totally made up, are probably not a bad estimation of actual scenario makers for CIV when you take into account the total number of CIVers.

	10-10-2001 01:23									#35
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization 2

quote: Originally posted by Anunikoba Firaxis' first priority is, of course, making the game great and run smooth. The choice to not have a SL may not have been theirs to make, but may also be due to time constraints. But who knows- there may still be something along the lines of CivII's event.txt in CivIII.

Hope so, and you're right of course.

But the backbone of the Civ franchise, IMO, has always been history and replayability. The audience for the game is large (as games go), and keeping all those people interested over and over takes more than one built-in thing. They need scenarios and scenario building to make it easier to sell Civ IV, just like scenarios in Civ II are helping them today.

quote: And actually, my percentage figures, though totally made up, are probably not a bad estimation of actual scenario makers for CIV when you take into account the total number of CIVers.

.01% isn't even a blip on the radar screen, but no argument the actual number is pretty small. Yet however small, this forum is buzzing...

	10-10-2001 02:50									#36
	Lose 30 kilos (of popups)

My biggest fear is unflexible city radii.

Why oh why must we still be stuck with the 21 square blob? It's so inflexible. I absolutely loathe having pockets of unused grassland, surrounded on all sides by cities but forever unusable.

Look at the screenshots. The cities are in the standard, evenly spaced formation that was so boring and unrealistic in previous civs.

No conurbations. No clusters. No river deltas packed with habitation. No densely populated coastlines and empty interiors. Just a monotonous sprawl.

For a while I thought that the city radius would be grow, depending on culture, but it is now clear that this is not the case.

Firaxis, why have you not fixed the most annoying thing about the civilisation series?

Phew... rant over.

	10-10-2001 02:56									#37
	Support Apolyton, buy Alpha Centauri

quote: Originally posted by Sandman My biggest fear is unflexible city radii. Firaxis, why have you not fixed the most annoying thing about the civilisation series?

CTP2 did this expanding city radii thing, quite well in fact, but I never found that it made much real difference to game play it just created pretty maps. Borders are more important with a sense of control over a clear section of territory where you could stop people building cities and moving troops.

David

	10-10-2001 04:05									#38
	Support Apolyton, buy GURPS/ Alpha Centauri

IMHO, the CTP2 city system was and interesting alternative, though it too did not create a ptimal pattern, all it di was space out cities more. The challenge then, is to find a way to encourgae naturla habitation. Perhaps the CTP2 system, combined with a naturally growing "settled" regions along riverways and good land?

	10-10-2001 04:13									#39
	Tired of ads?

After trying the game a couple of times with the city system used in CtP2, I must actually say that I disliked it. Things were too wishy washy, You couldn't pick squares to work and this was a loss of a major part of the strategy, and I found public works to be awkward with how they were implemented (although a good concept). So I would rather stick with the system developed over the ages with civ/SMAC, it works far better and made for a better game...I just found that you were wasting so much space by spreading cities out, but cramping them later on in the game. I like things to be reasonably discrete and to see what you were doing. Too many things to cope with in CtP2; it just because wishy-washy and I didn't feel like I was playing a game; it became a chore. So stick with the previous system. I know some people will probably say it isn't sufficient enough a change, but if it ain't broke, don't fix it. Add to the game, but don't f**k up the central mechanics that have been established as excellent within this line of games. Civ3 looks like the ideal nature of upgrade!

	10-10-2001 04:26									#40
	Enter the AD-FREE zone

I sould think my biggest fear is, getting home from the Trafford Centre and discovering it won't PLAY
Then, until i upgrade, i'll have to play it at my grandparents
I've got a Sh*tty P2 300 and my grandads got a Athlon 1.2 ghz. The crazy thing is, every time I go to see them, he's using BASIC or something like that, He uses it like its just an upgraded Spectrum.

	10-10-2001 05:21									#41
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization 2

That's a big fear too...... The game no running..... I've had that problem with nearly every game from CTP2 onward... Well, we can hope for the best, and hope that the system requirements were bumped up a little just in case.

	10-10-2001 07:23									#42
	Remove this text

Maybe SL will be in XPak, like civ2... i'll put that as a suggestion in my thread

	10-10-2001 10:13									#43
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization: The Boardgame

quote: I hope you were joking!

Jesus! Does no one understand irony anymore?

	10-10-2001 14:18									#44
	Increase the size of your Attachments

quote: Originally posted by Mister Pleasant Jesus! Does no one understand irony anymore?

...coming from an American...now that's Ironic