17-10-2001 20:37									#31
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Civlization is a subjective term, that's the best we can do.

What Eurocentric scholars think of as "primitive," other historians see has quite civilized cultures. It's all about perspective. We can't delineate a hard line even in terms of the Civ games, as they have included groups I couldn't consider a "civilization" (Mongols, Zulus). So the definition seems to be rather arbitrary.

Since there is no agreement among sociologists and historians, I doubt we'll reach a consensus here.

Cheers.

	17-10-2001 20:43									#32
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quote: Originally posted by Faboba And I'll bet that helped a whole lot

I feel so civilised now...

	17-10-2001 22:50									#33
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quote: Originally posted by XarXo No, sorry, is BLOOD! A lot of countries make "great" bloody actions, but these 16 are the best ones. Look the following reasons: - English : What to say? They contracted pirates to steal money to Spain. - Americans : "I will make a peace tretay, but first I will test my new kind of bomb with'em" - Iroquois : "They represents all the native northamerican tribes..." OoooOOOoooOOh... How much beautiful?? FALSE! They represent all THE COLONIZATION WARS. Only a combat dude. - Zulus : The same, but now for the english market. - Russians : Oohohohooo. With communism and Stalin all is said! - Germany : Hitler! Oh! The King of Blood. A midget bastard with ridiculous facial hair. What to say? - Aztec : In Civ3.COM they make a special refference to the human sacrifices. Now I know why they didn't choose the Incas. - French : Their centralism and chobisnism is enough reason to declare war to him an destroy them. Ah, also the Sahara Arabic destruction in the XVIII-XX (and the atomic test in Muruora!). - Indians : Millions of persons with computers. But the Cashmir war is truly a morbous point. - Egyptians : Pyramids, and the slaves that build them? And the wars with Israel and Nubia? - Japanese : Koreans "LOVE" 'em . They make a great humanitary acts in the 2nd WW. - Chinese : Look a Tibet. Look at elsewhere. - Persians : They are the actual Iran. that's all. - Babylonians : Wohohoo, they are IRAQ now!! - Greeks : Well... Ehm... Pf... Okey, Greeks are the exception. - Romans : Ugh, too many bloody wars. Let's make a choice! - Barbarians: Extra blood. Well, this seems more a JOKE. Ok, I accept that my theory is FALSE. Sorry if someone is insulted with my words, but is history guys!

Greeks?
Jsesus they were permamently fighting each other...
Any peaceful civ was and will be quickly wiped out by another not so pacifist...

	19-10-2001 19:48									#34
	Re: What is a "civilization" anyway? Lose 30 kilos (of popups)

quote: Originally posted by ranskaldan So, my question is, what is a civilization, in the context of civ3? P.S. Please do not to use dictionary definitions, most of those don't apply to the context of civ3 the game.

After having read all dictionnary's definitions given here above, I see no concept of nation in the definition of civilization.
Nation is a modern concept, born with Napoleonics wars. French Soldiers were fighting for France, Prussian, Austrian, Russian soldiers were fighting for their King, Czar,..., not for their land!!!
And indeed, if you think well, Germany,Spain, Italy, France,... they all belong to the same civilization: the western European one, heir from the Romans and the Greeks.
So, from my point of view, the CIV civilizations could be seen only as symbols of given civilizations.
For this reason there is indeed too many european civs, because they are all the same, they just differs by small local habits.
France/Spain could represent the latin western civilization (in civ2 they should have been of the same color, because representing the same symbolic civilisation),
Germany the German western civilization,...
Therefore if you want to play civilizations and not nations, the Vikings should be in the game, because their civ is NOT just another clone of the western european civilisation.

But all this is 'dictionnary' definition, let's go back to the game...

From my point of view, each CIV civilization represents only the people having lived in a given area. I mean Germany represent as well the German tribes of the Roman time, the Holy German Empire, Prussia, Germany and the BRD as any Central Europe country. It just happen that today Germany is the biggest country in the area, but why not Poland, Hungary or whatever...
Did any Italian civ-er complained about Itlay not beeing in the game? No. Why? Because they think they are heir of the Roman Empire. French still speak of their Gaul ancestors ?!?!?(Gaul = Celt)...
Therefore, I think that in the game, as for the cities, we should be able to rename our Civ, to evolve from 'Roman Empire' to 'Italy', or from 'Khanat of do-I-remember-what' to 'Russia' to 'USSR' and then back to 'Russia'.