03-12-2001 07:21									#31
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The only thing that is not cheating is to play the game the way it comes up. Even reloads and Alt Galaxy is cheating. Those are the least invasive forms, where using an editor is the most.

	04-12-2001 15:11									#32
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quote: Originally posted by Father Beast I've also givem myself a leg up on hard and impossible games by using the oreo program to reduce all the other worlds to 5 pop, no factories, and get rid of their colony ship. But on hard as the klackons, the sakkra and the silicoids were as big as I was. eek.

Hard isn't so tough I was able to win with all my usual races - I play all except Silicoids, Humans, and Darloks. Impossible is quite mind-boggling vicious though, I guess it'd be best to play the Darloks and steal everything you don't have

Anyway I found out I have oreo too but I haven't used it. I guess giving yourself a headstart isn't so bad.

	04-12-2001 22:02									#33
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Given yourself a helping hand is not bad, but it is cheating. As you say it is not needed, as long as I get a decent start, I will always win on hard. Impossible level is such a pain I rarely do it, but I need to have a better starting location to win. I still use Klacs as the productivity is a huge boost. You can still steal everything, just put 4.4% into it and you will gets spys in place any start getting tech. I find that the meklars are as hard to steal from as the darks. On impossible it is so much harder to grab a planet and hold it. Like I said, you can beat impossible, but it is really work, not fun.

	05-12-2001 07:12									#34
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I have recently found that the starting position can be crucial.
I just started a game as the silicoids on easy and as I expanded, I discovered that all the other races were in a cluster in the center of the map, and hadn't expanded much. maybe a planet or two each had been colonized.

I was able to expand into around 6 worlds before my scouts ran into someone else's ships. gave me a leg up that the difficulty had nothing to do with. it's like playing on super simple.

sort of makes me want to cheat just to see if the game has fairly loaded us up.

BTW, in this game, I found orion 5 parsecs away, tucked in the far corner of where I was placed in the large galaxy. in other words, if anyone wanted orion, they would have to go through me.

	05-12-2001 08:30									#35
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I used to think it was good to have Orion near me so no one would get it, but after so many hundreds of games of never seeing anyone go after Orion, I now prefer it to be near the others to reduce the number of good planets for them to choose. I normally play on small universe as the larger ones take more time. The difficulty level mainly imapcts the cost of research. It does affect others things like diplomacy and if they attack and stay. At simple the AI gets a -20% production and Hard it is +25% and +50% at impossible so they build things faster. They expand faster X1 at simple x5 at impossible. MOnsters are tougher at each level, including the guardian. The killer is research, you have a multipler to apply to the cost to research, 20 at simple and 35 at hard and 40 at impossible. This is not applied to the AI. This is why the higher the level the more is pays to have Psilons or Klacs to offset the pain. On a small universe the AI will attack you very soon as it does not take long to fill up the available planets.

Last edited by vmxa1 on 05-12-2001 at 14:10

	05-12-2001 13:19									#36
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vmxa1,

Thanks for the detailed info


FB,

The buggers spread like the plague on hard! I am playing one now, and the Psilons had 8 worlds colonised as compared to my 4 when I ran into him, and I am the Klackons I really have no idea how they find the production to build so many colony ships.

	05-12-2001 14:27									#37
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Urban the two factors that let them expand is that they have a multipiler of four times normal to make them gear towards expansion. Couple this with the huge production boost at hard level (instead of -20% they now get +25%). I do not know if they take additional advantage of the research edge to up the production as well or not. By that I mean that since you now pay so much more to get research, they can afford to cut back and put that towards production and still keep or ahead of you until you get more planets and larger population. This is why the vote is so dangerous as they can end the game on a vote at anytime in the early phase, you do not have the votes to stop them. This is where I have the most trouble,, keeping them from voting me out before I get enough planets to prevent it. Once I have more than a 1/3 edge in the voting they are doomed. The vote is the key reason that I feel I almost have to get a terraform to increase the pop at +10 or +20 to stay alive. If I do not get one or the other and can not steal it, it can be fatal. It then puts me on an eqivilent basis to an impossible level, no fun. I breath much easier if my list has +10 pop. Of course a decent missile later to research or steal is very important, merculite is the best. I say that as it is plenty for a long time and it is all I ever put in my missile ships. Later you will need a better one for the planets, ideally a scatter pack V and then pulson (not sure of the spelling) for the mid game and can even be enough all the way in a pinch.

	08-12-2001 12:15									#38
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I know what you mean.

In additional to the production and research bonuses they have the aliens also hate you more. Or at least they like each other more so it's much easier for them to vote you out.

A thought is to keep yourself small, so both front runners are CPs. That might not be such a good idea either since a player can't fall behind or he's doomed.

	09-12-2001 09:34									#39
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Yeah if you are not in the vote after the third round you are in big trouble. I can always get by the vote in a small universe as it normally requires only one AI to abstain. You can bribe them if need be, often I will agree to peace if the vote is close and it at hand. That is often all that is needed for them to abstain, if they are not the other nominee or allied with them. After the 6th vote or so I will likely have enough votes to stop them or be able to fend them off if I have to, I try to avoid that until much later. In larger universes it can get a lot tricker to avoid the vote.

	11-12-2001 19:42									#40
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quote: Originally posted by Father Beast I have recently found that the starting position can be crucial.

Most definitely.

I started a game as the Klackons on hard, found there's just a couple of minor habitable planets (50 pop tops) in range. There was nothing else I could use. After 100 turns or so I said "bollocks to this" and started a new game.

It's like night and day.

First planet I hit is a fertile one with 120 pop. "Wonderful, I thought."

Second one I found is a mininal planet with 50 pop that's ultra-rich

I didn't look back since then, and am now in control of 1/3 of the galaxy, squeezing the other 4 together. I was able to colonise all the rich and ultra-rich planets in my sphere of influence. I built a "wall" of colonised planets in the direction of the CPs so I have a bunch of empty planets behind me that are begging to be filled

	11-12-2001 23:41									#41
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Yup, location location location. Every now and again I get a premo start like that. Three close planets all good. Say terran, ocean or jungle and maybe an minimal rich/ultra rich and not far are other planets. Other civs are pinched in one area and have few planets to fight for. That game is just a breeze. Often I get so strong that they will not fight me until it is very late in the game. I have more fun on games that I have a marginal start and must struggle all the way until I get advanced soil and can start to expand in a big way. In this type of game it is hard to hold even your third palnet as they are attacking from that point on. You have many battles and the votes are a nightmare. After I finish that game I swear off of tough games for awhile, but I am pleased to have pulled it out. You know it is going to be a rough one, when you start that third colony and someone shows up with a bunch of warships and wipes it out. You are sitting there with no ships other than the free scouts. Time to decide if you are up for this work out or not. I have not play in a week due to Civ3, maybe my last one was Wensday. I recall now I had to switch PC as my main one was fixed that day and I moved the game over to it and finished it.

	12-12-2001 10:40									#42
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quote: Originally posted by vmxa1 Yeah if you are not in the vote after the third round you are in big trouble. I can always get by the vote in a small universe as it normally requires only one AI to abstain. You can bribe them if need be, often I will agree to peace if the vote is close and it at hand. That is often all that is needed for them to abstain, if they are not the other nominee or allied with them. After the 6th vote or so I will likely have enough votes to stop them or be able to fend them off if I have to, I try to avoid that until much later. In larger universes it can get a lot tricker to avoid the vote.

I didn't realize it was nearly that detailed and assumed it to be pretty much random. I've been in one of the contenders seats before and had races I was at war with voting for me. Likewise had some of my allies voting for the other contender whom they (and I) were at war with.
This was all on impossible/huge however. Don't know if that makes a difference.
Could the AI's be doing this as a way to improve relations with the votee? Do they actually "think" like that?

	12-12-2001 19:45									#43
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quote: Originally posted by vmxa1 Often I get so strong that they will not fight me until it is very late in the game.

In my game now everybody else hates my guts, all five of them, and there's nothing they could do. My missile bases on my planets are enough to fend off the attackers.

I usually don't enjoy one-sided games like this, but after a couple of tough ones a player needs a break

	12-12-2001 19:50									#44
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quote: Originally posted by ravagon I didn't realize it was nearly that detailed and assumed it to be pretty much random. I've been in one of the contenders seats before and had races I was at war with voting for me. Likewise had some of my allies voting for the other contender whom they (and I) were at war with. This was all on impossible/huge however. Don't know if that makes a difference. Could the AI's be doing this as a way to improve relations with the votee? Do they actually "think" like that?

I think the CPs vote for whoever they like more, or more often, hate less

If they hate both the same then they abstain.

Also the higher the level the more they hate you.

	12-12-2001 22:17									#45
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Some factors are do they have an erratic leader? If so they will of course behave erratically. This means they can do anything including break treaties and go to war at randon (2% chance). Votes are cast to improve diplomatic relations (+24 points). AI will vote for itself always. An ally if it is not allied with the other. If it is at war with one and not the other it will vote for the one it is not at war with. If not at war with either nor allied to either, it will toss a coin. First for the leader (first to be voted on) and if that does not decided its vote, it does the same for the other canidate. If neither are choosen, they will abstain. The toss is affected by your relations.

	12-12-2001 22:27									#46
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The relations modifier is affected by the game level. Red is up to -100 (fued), green is up to +100 (harmony). Add 60% in favor if you voted for them the last time (good idea if they can not win and you have bad relations with the other). Add 20 if candidate controls Orion. Add 20 if Human (remember I said I do not like Humans for this reason). Add 12.5 when considering you at Simple, 10 at Easy, 7.5 Average, 5 at Hard and 2.5 at impossible. So as you can see the level of the game is not much of a factor for the coin toss in the vote. It does not even come into play if they voted for you the last time or are an ally or they are at war with one candidate.

	13-12-2001 05:38									#47
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quote: Originally posted by Urban Ranger I think the CPs vote for whoever they like more, or more often, hate less

I guess nobody ever likes me then
I wonder why .. oh, um yeah ... Thats why!

	13-12-2001 12:08									#48
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Do not forget that all races have a starting desposition towards each race. So if you are Mrrshans, the Alkari will start of loathing you. Humans are favorable deposed.