02-11-2001 00:08									#31
	Suffering from ads?

500bc to 100ad is certainly a far cry from Civ2, ain't it? And that does not even get you out of the Ancient age with the beeline. So it does look like there are some time/age parameters at work. I'm wondering, though, once research gets speeded up, do the Middle and Industrial ages go by quicker?

	02-11-2001 00:11									#32
	Support Apolyton buy from Amazon

Another viable option is going all out for Literature and construction of the Great Library. Usually two other AI civs will be able to reach Monarchy before the player, and the Library can catch you up quickly. I've used this method to snag Monarchy or Republic by 100 or so A.D. Best I did otherwise was 650 AD after an awesome start.

	02-11-2001 02:12									#33
	Support Apolyton, buy Galactic Civilizations

quote: Originally posted by Knight Another viable option is going all out for Literature and construction of the Great Library. Usually two other AI civs will be able to reach Monarchy before the player, and the Library can catch you up quickly. I've used this method to snag Monarchy or Republic by 100 or so A.D. Best I did otherwise was 650 AD after an awesome start.

I race for the Republic instead of Monarchy. Playing the Greeks, I already start with Alphabet.

Here's a good strategy from Master of Orion. When you gain an advance, immediately trade it to everyone. They get one advance, and you get 5 or 6. Do this a couple of times and you'll be way ahead of them technologically.

It really helps to trade for 'Contact with other civs' to make this extremely effective.

	02-11-2001 02:31									#34
	Lose 30 kilos (of popups)

Ok... but once again.

I'm almost certain that beelining for Literature is more effective because the libraries add so much to your research.

We still need a formula to calculate what the cost (in actual # of beakers) of technology is. I had that preliminary sketch in one of my first posts, but it is undoubtly as this point wrong.

Thirdly, don't get too reliant upon the Great Library. It'll be out of vogue once you get education, and you'll want that because of the Universities.

And BTW, you get through the ages in less turns once you get passed the Ancient Age, but actual gameplay time remains the same due to the increased size of your empire. Currently I'm shredding through the tech tree in the Industrial Age and really leaving the AI sucking wind.

	02-11-2001 02:48									#35
	Support Apolyton buy from Amazon

Yes, the rate of tech advance does speed up as you go (provided you build up your infrastructure). I'm also "shredding" through the tech tree right now, blowing past the AI. I've come to realize that Warlord level is actually pretty easy, so I'm definitely going to move up next game. I thought it was hard because I got off to what I thought was a slow start. But I've realized that my start was only slow by Civ2 standards. The definition of slow start is completely different in Civ3.

	02-11-2001 02:53									#36
	32 max turns helps the AI also Support Apolyton buy from Amazon

I remember when playing AC, I would out tech the computer soooo badly that I would have shard tanks and choppers why they would still be fooling around with low end weapons and lightly armored rovers.

I would be tooling around at getting new techs every 5-8 turns or less, while the AI (sometimes with more cities than I do) would take 200 or more turns for a much simpler advance.

I'm wondering....*if* the 32 max turns per tech is true, if it's in there to mostly help the AI. And if so, is it reduced considerably on the higher levels to give the AI a "boost".

This is definately food for thought, eh?

Taliseian

	02-11-2001 06:38									#37
	Support Apolyton buy from Amazon

I think the tech rate may be influenced by how many other civs have the tech... I noticed that Refining and Steel both took the same amount of time to research. A few turns later, refining was 3 turns quicker. I looked around, and sure enough, the Persians had refining. This would also make sense as to why techs I skipped but the computer researched are easier to get later on.

	02-11-2001 09:12									#38
	Got spare money?

quote: Originally posted by albiedamned A friend of mine just thought of a possible explanation as to why increasing your science doesn't seem to bring down the time to the next discovery. Perhaps the game is doing you a favor. Maybe the actual time to get that first discovery should be much more than 32 turns, but the game caps it at 32. I plan to play with this when I get home to see if I can figure out what is going on. Dan or anyone from Firaxis, if you wanted to chip in here and explain, I'd appreciate it greatly!

This is exactly what is happening.

For example, if Bronze Working costs 100 beakers, it would take 100 turns if you were producing 1 lab/turn and 50 turns if you were producing 2 labs/turn. However, since it can never take longer than 32 turns, it doesn't matter if you dedicate 1 or 2 labs? However, if you dedicate 4 (or more) labs, it should decrease the research time.

	02-11-2001 09:26									#39
	Support Apolyton buy from Amazon

Care to share what the exact formula for figuring out how the "cost" of a tech relates to the # of beaker needed?

	02-11-2001 09:43									#40
	Support Apolyton or Terrorists Win

quote: Originally posted by CygnusZ Care to share what the exact formula for figuring out how the "cost" of a tech relates to the # of beaker needed?

The cost for techs is in the editor, just like for units and improvements...

	02-11-2001 10:22									#41
	Support Apolyton, pre-order Civilization IV

Bronze Working costs "3". I'm sure that's not 3 beakers =)
So, what I'm saying is how do we calculate the amount of science needed to learn a tech based upon this "cost" value?

	02-11-2001 10:38									#42
	Lose 30 kilos (of popups)

quote: Originally posted by CygnusZ Bronze Working costs "3". I'm sure that's not 3 beakers =) So, what I'm saying is how do we calculate the amount of science needed to learn a tech based upon this "cost" value?

* 10...

actually, it is more complicated than that... depends on how many civs are in the game and how many known civs (to you) have learned the tech... but * 10 will give you a good ballpark figure.

	02-11-2001 10:51									#43
	Suffering from ads?

Allright, if you look toward the start I have an initial formula somewhat like that. Thanks for at least giving us a rough idea of what we're looking at.

	02-11-2001 11:56									#44
	Got spare money?

Maybe they wanted your moving thru the ages to more closely match actual history? This way you don't see F-15s in 700AD.

I'm playing with 4 other civs, large random map, and I'm getting tech fairly quickly. Playing Egyptian republic, at war, 40% science, heavy on infrastructure and culture. Sharing a huge continent with romans and greeks, both of which are a bit behind, and the persians on their own continent are behind as well. At current rate I'll have nukes while they have muskets. Oh and this is on the middle level.

Course I did take some big chances early on, and had virtually no defense, spending everything on expansion and infrastructure, but that chance paid off.

	02-11-2001 13:12									#45
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization: The Boardgame

My best be Bach built bout 700 AD. Emperor, french, 8 civs, large defaults map. Skipping early wonders and wars for buildings and culture seems to work a little too well.

	02-11-2001 19:03									#46
	What if I allocate 0 beakers? Support Apolyton, buy Civilization III: Complete

Finishing up on this topic, I allocate 0 beakers to a scientific development, do I still get the advance in 32 turns?