12-11-2001 09:31									#31
	Support Apolyton, pre-order Civilization IV

I suppose we can say that we have the fullest right
to complain on that "poster". I just don't understand
why they couldn't at least have done such a good one
as provided with Civ II. It really wouldn't have cost too
much, if they charge extra for the LE. The tin certainly
isn't expnsive (0.80$?) and that video is also cheap
to produce, unless they have hired Spielberg.

In September-October they claimed that the LE
would contain an extra handbook and one extra scenario.
Now, where's are the notes of the game makers?
Where's that LE scenario? I suppose they just chickened
out and thought that they could now easily deceive
civers who believe that the LE would really include
some nice gadgets.

For me this stinks more like slight fraud of customers'
money. Not to mention that they have done a poor
work. Grrrr...

	12-11-2001 10:02									#32
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization III: Complete

Of course most of the complaining is by people who aren't getting what they expected. What's wrong with that? This isn't a book or a movie that costs $10 or so. It's a game, that I was expecting to play for, dunno, a thousand hours or so, at least, and costs at least 5 times as much. And there was Civ and CivII, as well as SMAC, all great games. So, yeah I had expectations. The sucky tech tree "poster" is simply another problem with a bad game. I honestly don't think it's too much to expect more from this fanchise - there's enough ways to be disappointed in this world right now.

	12-11-2001 10:03									#33
	"Designer's Notes" = the letter Support Apolyton, buy Civilization 2

Think about it - if the 'fold-out tecch tree" is that screenshot POS, why should the "designer's notes" be anything substantial. I figure the "real" tech tree poster will be in the "Official Strategy Guide", whomever that comes out from.

Note to the BTC: as annoying as it may have been for you to be excluded from the LE purchase, whomever made the decision to exclude you inadvertantly saved you from wasting the extra cash.

	12-11-2001 10:07									#34
	Support Apolyton, buy Galactic Civilizations

quote: Originally posted by Cyanide Of course most of the complaining is by people who aren't getting what they expected. What's wrong with that? This isn't a book or a movie that costs $10 or so. It's a game, that I was expecting to play for, dunno, a thousand hours or so, at least, and costs at least 5 times as much. And there was Civ and CivII, as well as SMAC, all great games. So, yeah I had expectations. The sucky tech tree "poster" is simply another problem with a bad game. I honestly don't think it's too much to expect more from this fanchise - there's enough ways to be disappointed in this world right now.

I'm not complaining about the game - despite its deficiencies, to me it's still worth the $50 the standard box costs. I'm complaining about what was received in return for the extra $10 for the LE - it doesn't come close to being worth it.

	12-11-2001 10:16									#35
	Support Apolyton buy from Amazon

I know you're not complaining about the "game." That's not what this thread was for. Sorry about that - that's all I seem to do, though, is complain about this game that I was living for and has so disappointed me. It's just one more disappointment in $60 and and entire year of waiting of them.

	12-11-2001 11:12									#36
	Limited Edition of Poo Tired of ads?

I'm enjoying the game a great deal, but I'd have to agree that the Limited Edition is rip off, and leaves a bitter taste in my mouth for what could have been one big happy experience.

I usually shy away from buying any kind of software limited edition product. However, when it came to Civ 3 I figured I'd thrown down a couple extra clams for one of my favorite computer game series. What a mistake.

The "poster" is totally useless, the only text you can actually read is on the opposite side of the poster that just says "Civilization III" (Oh good, I forgot what game I was playing). I paid $10 for this? I'm totally disappointed by Fraxis. Someone had to be sitting in a meeting (or someone's cube) and said "Hey, you know this poster . . . it's hard to read, and pretty much useless even if you could read it."

In the videos that come with LE they yap about how Civ 3 was made by people who enjoy playing games. No gamer would have thought that an illegible strip of paper encased in some aluminum would be worth an extra $10.

I would have thought the LE worthwhile if they'd just provided a readable tech poster (poster, not a strip of paper) with the opposite side displaying units, the necessary resources to build them, and their stats.

After seeing Civ 3 several friends have gone out and bought the game. I've counseled each and every one not to buy the LE, several had plans to, but after my advice none have.

All in all a good game, but with some harsh disappointment from a company that has put out such quality in the past.

	12-11-2001 11:59									#37
	Support Apolyton, pre-order Civilization IV

quote: Originally posted by yin26 Also I hear that the promised designer notes aren't even in the box. LOL

argh
i am really enjoying it, but i think that all LE owners should write firaxians some letters of protest. kautilya? anyone? i think we do deserve an answer. LE as it is now is a fking disgrace

	12-11-2001 15:25									#38
	Re: Off topic Support Apolyton, buy Civilization 2

quote: Originally posted by Urban Ranger What? Shogun doesn't have any tech posters. As a matter of fact tech isn't involved.

Yes it does. I've got a beautiful poster showing the cost, development time and prerequirements for armories, temples etc and what units they produce. All the information you need to know in a really crisp clear way.

That the standard edition isn't coming with a poster covering the tech tree, terrain effects, units and wonders seems indicative of what we already know. The game was rushed to completion to meet a deadline that should never have been allowed to stand. As a result they dared not spend time doing a quality insert in case one or a dozen details changed or were cut at the last minute. If there is anything worse than an inaccurate manual it is an inaccurate quick reference chart. So we get a poorer quality product and will have to wait for the MGE/Add pack to get some of the standard components.

	12-11-2001 15:27									#39
	Support Apolyton, buy Alpha Centauri

quote: Originally posted by SuiteSisterMary There's no doubt about it; it's even got the 'next age' 'previous age' 'done' buttons still on there.

I never noticed that. I'm going to take a look at it right away! What a crock!! Firaxis I am very very very disappointed by you. How could you endorse such a worthless piece of crap!!

Mind you, the game is great!! .....But that doesn't matter the LE is a ripoff!!! It's things like this that make some people pirate games because they don't want to get jipped!!

	12-11-2001 15:54									#40
	Avatar Enlargement: We've got the solution

quote: Originally posted by Fintilgin Actually, I don't think Firaxis had much to do with putting together the LE. I think that kind of thing is mostly the responsibility of the publisher. In other words, Infrogrames.

Just like to highlight this post.
infogames are the ones putting out the shoddy merchandise.

Firaxis arent perfect, they have let a few balance issues and bugs through, but a lot less than i expected. But blaming them for the LE debacle is a bit much. Especially when the company pushing cheap stuff onto us is in plain view.

infogames

	12-11-2001 15:57									#41
	Support Apolyton, buy Alpha Centauri

quote: Originally posted by Skanky Burns Just like to highlight this post. infogames are the ones putting out the shoddy merchandise. Firaxis arent perfect, they have let a few balance issues and bugs through, but a lot less than i expected. But blaming them for the LE debacle is a bit much. Especially when the company pushing cheap stuff onto us is in plain view. infogames

do you want to tell me that
1) infogrames made tech poster
2) firaxis just makes a gold copy and do not have a clue what is advertised
3) no one there ever took a look at LE copy and said 'hey, we forgot to bring in designer's notes!

instead, i have to cruise the forum for soren's posts.

	12-11-2001 16:31									#42
	Increase Your PM Length

quote: Originally posted by LaRusso Do you want to tell me that 1) infogrames made tech poster

Yes, Infogrames is the publisher. Every decision to do with the cover art, manual layout, advertising inserts, registration form, DvD vs standard format box etc will be taken by Infogrames and usually subcontracted to a designer/printer even if a Firaxian wrote the draft manual.

quote: 2) firaxis just makes a gold copy and do not have a clue what is advertised

They may know that a LE is advertised, but again their input into its additional content will be limited to negotiating the price of producing any additional components that infogrames may ask for. The tech chart would not be one of those since it is factual information that any designer can compile.

quote: 3) no one there ever took a look at LE copy and said 'hey, we forgot to bring in designer's notes!

Well if you listen to Dan, their complimentary 'as sold in stores' copies hadn't even showed up at the time he posted. It's not like Firaxis will have been sent examples for approval in advance of release. That would take a very unusual contract. It would be like the authors who inisit on full editorial control of the movie made out of their book instead of the standard advisory role or no input whatever.

	12-11-2001 16:46									#43
	Support Apolyton buy from Amazon

grumbold, with all due respect, when they print my books i know at least that they have table of contents, index and bibliography. if they leave table of cases out i will kill them and pillage their offices
i am not mad at dan at all, but i am just not buying the story that evil infogrames screwed the LE in the process. there were stories here that sid is a control freak.

	12-11-2001 17:29									#44
	Lose 30 kilos (of popups)

I've said it elsewhere, and I'll say it again. I do not believe that Firaxis had nothing to do with the appearance of the game. It just makes no sense, spending three years, and all your company's resources and not caring what the end product looks like.

	12-11-2001 18:19									#45
	Blow your nose on it... Increase Your PM Length

I think the best description of the "poster" was by Field Marshal Klink (sorry, forgot your name dude) who called it a "tech tree napkin".

Venger

	12-11-2001 18:37									#46
	Lucky Me Support Apolyton

Lucky for me, I didn't even buy the regular version, save my money for better games.

	12-11-2001 19:13									#47
	Re: Lucky Me Support Apolyton, buy Alpha Centauri

quote: Originally posted by To_Serve_Man Lucky for me, I didn't even buy the regular version, save my money for better games.

Don't confuse the game and the LE packaging. The game is great, just buy the Standard Edition and save yourseld $10.

The game is worth it. Addictive as...