11-11-2001 21:40									#31
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quote: I think Firaxis made the right decision. They had on their hands a choice of releasing Civ III early (wadn't all they wanted) and to at least make so we have it and change stuff after. Or, they could have put a release date of 2 or 3 months more for some stuff they could in fact arrange in a patch.

*sigh* Did you actually read this thread? It is the publisher, INFOGRAMES, who makes the decision on release dates and not the developper, Firaxis. Compris?

	11-11-2001 21:57									#32
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Yeah, and I hope no one misunderstood me above, least of all Dan...

I'm actually very happy with the delivered product, sure it could be improved, like anything else - and scenarios are but one example of that potential for improvement - but I think they made an excellent game. From my understanding, it was Infogrames that forced them into an early release (but I also know they can't really comment negatively on their publisher ), but kudos to Firaxis for concentrating on the game itself, rather than "extra" things like scenarios, multiplayer, etc. I'm confident both of those issues will be fixed in the near future, because of the amount of interest in them.

	11-11-2001 22:14									#33
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quote: Originally posted by David Floyd blowjobs of course

LOL

All i could think of was BlackJack!!!

	11-11-2001 22:58									#34
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Hehehe

	12-11-2001 03:32									#35
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boycott civ3?

kinda late for that.

besides, i like it.

i wish for a better editor; but i am content to wait.

	12-11-2001 15:12									#36
	Boycott Civ3? Increase the size of your Attachments

What are ya, Yin reincarnate?

	12-11-2001 18:53									#37
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quote: Originally posted by Dan Magaha FIRAXIS If you're referring to the "Open Letter... " thread, I can't speak for anyone else, but I was under the impression it was a thread for organizing comments that would be compiled and mailed to someone hereDan

Dan, say these words out loud, "O...pen...Le...ter". Get it?

	12-11-2001 21:24									#38
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Oh well, I'm still not paying until I get some satisfactory answers. It's ridiculous that Firaxis isn't responding to this (Dan still hasn't answered ANY questions) or the open letter. I don't need to buy their stinkin game if they aren't going pay any attention to us. I understand the pressures Firaxis was under by Infogrames, but that is no excuse for excessive vagueness about future patches.

Mark: you feel like licking me? ewww...

I was originally annoyed that the game had inadequate modification tools, but now I am really pissed because Firaxis is now just pretty much ignoring the concerns. They don't keep us informed, and they pretend to keep the community involved, when the truth is that they keep us in the dark. All I am asking at this point is to keep us informed.

	12-11-2001 23:03									#39
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quote: Originally posted by Anunikoba What are ya, Yin reincarnate?

Oh my goodness! That would be too much for me.

	13-11-2001 03:34									#40
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AAAHHHH No. Having way too much fun, can barely breathe, can't drag myself away from screen, wife considering divorce, children rebelling, finances in ruins, career off track.

It is way too late to worry about an editor. I would have loved one, but the game is incredible as it is! Want editor, really want game.

	13-11-2001 04:54									#41
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Could someone explain the process by which a computer game gets produced and distributed? I have an idea of how it works, but I'm not absolutely sure.

This is what I gather the process was for Civ 3:

Firaxis is a developer, and wanted to make Civ 3. It had to find a company to actually manufacture and distribute the games, so Infogrames agreed. Financing goes like this: Firaxis spends its own money on making the software and Infogrames spends its own money manufacturing and distributing the game. There is then a formula as to the division of profits; Firaxis gets a portion for each sale and Infogrames gets a portion for each sale. Apparently, Infogrames set a deadline for when Civ 3 was supposed to hit stores, and made their agreement contingent on that deadline. Firaxis, then, had to budget their time and couldn't do all they wanted because time restrictions were too great. Now that the game has shipped and is being sold, Firaxis can create and post patches independent from Infogrames, but that is up to them. Since there is no profit in making patches, and no deadline, there is little manpower dedicated to it, and there is no rush to produce a patch for something like the editor. Is this a correct description of the production process?

	13-11-2001 05:03									#42
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quote: Originally posted by Hoek Firaxis spends its own money on making the software

actually that's more like "Firaxis spends Infogrames' money on making the software"

quote: Now that the game has shipped and is being sold, Firaxis can create and post patches independent from Infogrames, but that is up to them.

that's kind of wrong too, infogrames has a large part of the tech support and probably assits in the patches with their QA teams

any firaxians out there, feel free to correct me

	13-11-2001 07:15									#43
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Actually the publisher/game developer relation also has the valuable attribute of allowing blame shifting. No one knows who's responsible for anything. The people who market to us aren't responsible and we never hear from the people who are, etc. etc.

Reminds me of building contractors and architects...

	13-11-2001 10:19									#44
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So, Firaxis contracted with Infrogrames to manufacture and distribute Civ3, rather than Ifrogrames contracting with Firaxis to design it? Very interesting indeed! So then how can Firaxis blame Ifrogrames for insisting on an early release date? Surely then, Firaxis must have made the call...yes?

	13-11-2001 10:42									#45
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quote: Originally posted by techumseh So, Firaxis contracted with Infrogrames to manufacture and distribute Civ3

no, it's the opposite. i got a note from a firaxian that my post was correct. which means that infogrames has been the financial basis for the development of civ3 the last 2.5 years...

	13-11-2001 11:09									#46
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quote: Originally posted by GP Actually the publisher/game developer relation also has the valuable attribute of allowing blame shifting. No one knows who's responsible for anything

I agree. It ALLOWS blame-shifting and confusion-raising. And they are using it

	13-11-2001 11:13									#47
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OK, that's more or less the way I thought it was: Infrogrames is the big player. I don't always follow the Apolyton news the way I should , but what was the transition in the rights to the use of the "Civilization" name? Did Infrogrames or Firaxis buy it from Hasbro/Microprose?

	13-11-2001 11:20									#48
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Since we keep getting the "that's up to the publisher*" line, could we get an interview with the publisher. Firaxis isn't willing to ask themselves so we may as well.

*Take that with a grain of salt. Both parties affect the decisions. It's a partenership.

	13-11-2001 11:24									#49
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quote: Originally posted by techumseh what was the transition in the rights to the use of the "Civilization" name? Did Infrogrames or Firaxis buy it from Hasbro/Microprose?

in the begining there was Microprose, who had the rights to the "Civilization" name

then Hasbo bought Microprose through their subsidiary Hasbro Interactive

finally, Hasbro sold Hasbro Interactive to Infogrames

	13-11-2001 11:26									#50
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Markos, wasn't the Oracle in Greece as well?

	13-11-2001 11:28									#51
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Thanks. Who can keep track of modern capitalism without a scorecard?

	13-11-2001 11:32									#52
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...or in your case, it sounds more like the Book of Genesis!

	13-11-2001 11:38									#53
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I'm not going to boycott Civ3 (too late for that anyway) but I am going to boycutt future Firaxis games if the current release of Civ3 sets the new standard.

Though I like C3 I think it's a step back from SMAC, and SMAC in itself had a horrible patch history.

(Did they ever fix the infinite range AI nukes ?)

/dev

	13-11-2001 13:03									#54
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Yin: If I am not mistaken, the Oracle was in Delphi, Greece. There were many minor oracles, but the most famous one was in Delphi (not pictured in the Civ2 wondermovie).

Now, why is Civ3 so broken?
It isn't so much broken as unfinished and there is a simple explanation to that. Brian Reynolds (Civ2, SMAC) was the head developer of Civ3 to begin with. He and much of the original Civ3 team left seven months into the development process. It seems as if Firaxis had to build a new team and start froms scratch. It makes sense. Think what Civ3 would have looked like with 7-9 months extra development time.

	13-11-2001 23:00									#55
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So theoretically, Infogrames could have contracted any company to develop the software? How much control does someone like Sid Meier then have over the final product? My impression from your replies is that he has very little control. It's obvious that Firaxis wants everyone to believe that any problems are Infogrames's fault, so perhaps we should start trying to get interviews with Infogrames guys.

If Infogrames gets the royalties, then does Firaxis also get royalties? Who does the game as "intellectual property" belong to? Why hasn't any company come up with the idea of combining production and software creation?

	18-11-2001 11:31									#56
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quote: Originally posted by techumseh Sorry Hoek, I've already bought it. What I find interesting though, is that a number of new posters have suddenly appeared on the boards, singing the praises of Civ3. Now I know there's nothing unusual about that, but take ComputerEnginee for example. (S)he's new today, and has 27 posts so far, posted between 19:07 and 20:50. All are Civ3 BJ's. Someone's working pretty hard to counter the negative reaction of many experinced Civers. And there are others, too. Maybe they're legit, but maybe they're Anonymous.

Interestingly enough, 11 threads started by ComputerEnginee have now been closed by the moderator. (As of the time of this posting, they are on about page 17 of the threads for this forum) May we ask why?

	18-11-2001 15:51									#57
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quote: Originally posted by techumseh Interestingly enough, 11 threads started by ComputerEnginee have now been closed by the moderator. (As of the time of this posting, they are on about page 17 of the threads for this forum) May we ask why?

techumseh, do you have some kind of passion with conspiracies? i seem to remember a thread of yours about the civ3.com fan site list...

the threads were closed because he posted all 11 of them in 15 minutes. at around the same page you should have also found the thread i made for him afterwards so that he posts all his impressions in one thread....

	18-11-2001 23:08									#58
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quote: Originally posted by MarkG techumseh, do you have some kind of passion with conspiracies? i seem to remember a thread of yours about the civ3.com fan site list... the threads were closed because he posted all 11 of them in 15 minutes. at around the same page you should have also found the thread i made for him afterwards so that he posts all his impressions in one thread....

Markos, just because someone is paranoid, doesn't mean that someone isn't really following them! Besides, the consolidated thread just doesn't have the same passion as "Sid you are the man!!!", or "Soren, you are the best!".

	19-11-2001 20:38									#59
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I don't buy many games. But I bought all the other Civ titles.
This version has is flaws, but it plays ok. When the patch comes out it will play even better.

So stop whining and give some good strategies!!!!!

	19-11-2001 21:30									#60
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My biggest concern is getting the wait time between turns to be significantly faster. Get rid of the 5-8 minute wait time when number of cities in game becomes many. 1 minute would be totally acceptable compared to what many, including myself, are going through. I have never made it to flight so I don't know how airplanes are handled in the game although many here have complained that something is not right. That certainly is worth fixing too.

MP is not an issue with me. I'd glady pay extra for an expansion pack or a MP edition of the game. OTOH maybe civ3 the way it is now is not really meant to be a MP game. Imagine having to wait 30 minutes between turns even with cable modem?


Other than that I am very happy with the game. The AI is definately challenging and I have yet to win a game. I've been playing on monarch level and just can't seem to compete. However I've learned a lot from everyone here and have improved my game a lot. I really like the way the AI will go after your resources and cut them off from your cities. The computer definately knows where to strike!

Good gaming to all, waiting for the patch that will save us all from long wait times between turns.