13-11-2001 05:08									#31
	Increase Your PM Length

quote: BAH!

Posting from Athens, Greece? I thought I razed that city yesterday and used the population that I hadn't killed to build my pan-african road to bring the might of the legion to Zululand?

	13-11-2001 05:11									#32
	Remove this text

and which country are you from? clown

	13-11-2001 05:43									#33
	Put an end to popups!

Why, I'm posting from Rome of course

	13-11-2001 05:49									#34
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization: The Boardgame

Rome where? The one in Kentucki?

	13-11-2001 06:29									#35
	Support Apolyton

Of course. And I'm sitting here with my sister-wife and my son-nephew typing this into a beat up 386 in the back of my pickup truck.

	13-11-2001 06:40									#36
	Vikings! Support Apolyton or Terrorists Win

Oh, how I miss the Vikings!
Perhaps the Viking warrior, or a modified longship. Ahh, my favorite
civ seems to be no more.
The leader could be Eric the Red, of course! Expansionistic and
Military. Yeehaw!
Thanks for this thread to enable me to squak on my big
Viking (or lack thereof) gripe.

Eric77

	13-11-2001 07:04									#37
	Support Apolyton, buy Call to Power 2

I voted for Persians, because the Immortal unique unit is HUGE!

Legions are blah, you don't need that extra defense in the ancient age, 1 or 2 elite spearmen will give all the backup my immortals need.

It takes a LOONG time for immortals to become obsolete, they are easily the longest lasting of any unique unit, they are useful until calvalry.

The double worker rate from industrious is very big, and the scientific bonus is nice for getting culture and 3 extra techs over the course of the game.

As far as militaristic giving you tons of extra leaders I disagree... I have gotten 3 great leaders and am only 1/2 way done with the midevil age as the persians, I have conquered the Russians and am about to attack the Babylonians, this is only on a medium sized map mind you.

If we knew about the actual statistics for how often militaristic gives you a great leader it would be nice.... DAN MAGHDA/SOREN JOHNSEN PLEASE APPEAR HERE!

Anyways I change my civ preferences pretty frequently, I have only beaten 1 game so far as americans, all I know for sure is that Industrious ROCKS!

	14-11-2001 02:13									#38
	Full PM-box? Change here!

Defense of three is far from worthless, particularly in the ancient age. Legions can take and hold any position in the ancient era with hardly any difficulty. They have the same defense as middle ages units and an offense factor that is not serriously rivaled till the advent of calvery.

Hell, if the game lasts long enough I find myself deploying them even in the more modern eras. By the time the end game is nearing, I find myself with a huge army of elite legions. I use them to garrison towns and to pick off single enemy units (even higher tech ones) for the chance to spawn yet annother great leader.

	14-11-2001 02:34									#39
	Put an end to popups!

quote: I'll take German Panzers over Chinese Riders anyday!!!

That's IF you ever make it to the panzers when my Chinese riders put the misery out of your civ.

	14-11-2001 13:53									#40
	Dai Nippon Teikoku!! Remove this text

I usually play Japan. For a couple of reasons:

1. The Samurai. Easily the a$$-kickingest unit before the industrial age.
4 attack (same as longbowmen), 4 defense (same as musketman), and the ability to withdraw.
If you play Japan you always have India and China as neighbors. All three get their special units at the same time (Chivalry). The samurai is easily better than elephants or riders. It takes about 4-5 elephants or riders to take down one samurai, especially because with the militaristic attribute the samurai are usually elite after being attacked twice.
Chinese bazashi. Yum! (bazashi = raw horse meat)

Also, a whole lotta love went into the Samurai unit animation.

2. If you play 12 civs, the Japanese are RED! The Chinese are pink. I can't play a pink civ.

3. Militaristic and Religious isn't a bad combination. Somehow if I don't play Japan I never get a leader because I can't keep elite units around ling enough.
Elite samurai never die, I only loose them when they're healing in cities that revert due to culture.

	15-11-2001 03:03									#41
	Inflate your Upload Space

quote: So greeks get cheap libraries and universities do they? Good luck staying alive long enough to get universities while you have a competent roman player actively trying to crush you.

bring it on!!!


Once the Roman "offensive" fails miserably, not only will the Greeks have lost a minimal (if any) part of their territory, but they will start swallowing up cities with culture and will be significantly ahead in science.

Of course, it all depends on the players... Either side has a chance, though I think the Greeks are geared more towards mid to late game expantion and the Romans' window is almost always open.

	15-11-2001 03:42									#42
	Support Apolyton, buy Alpha Centauri

Fortified hoplite in a city less than size seven on a plains will beat an equal rank legion 57.85% of the time. Decent odds, true. But a legion will have the same odds of beating your swordsman when the legion is fortified on open ground (to starve your cities). The true power of the legion is that it combines the defense of the hoplite with the offense of a swordsman, for the same price as just building a swordsman. The best offensive and defensive infantry of the era, rolled up into one unit. A situation that never repeats itself.

The legions can take any peice of ground, possibly at some cost, true. But they don't need to. You can't protect your entire road network. Once the legions have you on the defensive, relying on hoplites, its already over. The roman player can keep expanding, and keep putting pressure on the greek player to keep them bottled up nicely. The greek player hasn't got that option, because their best offensive unit (assumeing they still have iron) will lose against a legion on both offense and on defense, more often than not. True, they can bring along hoplites with the swordsmen. But faced with an equal number of just legions, the legions will defeat the stack no matter who attacks first.

In a *** for tat war of attrition in the ancient era, the roman player will gain ground, against any Civ. The opponent will end up on the defensive, there is nothing they can do about it untill the advent of knights or the longbow.


Now, all of the above assumes roughly equal skill on the part of the players. If the greek player is better at manageing a war, uses superior tactics, and suprises the roman player, then the greek player will of course win. If the roman player has the edge in skill, then the decimation of the greek player will be all the swifter.

	15-11-2001 09:59									#43
	Babylon Baby! Support Apolyton buy from Amazon

For some reason, i've always been able to make great use of the 2-2-1 Bowman. go figure



i'm big on the religious guys cuz i can switch govs to suit the purpose.

but a super close second would be English. Unlike most, I actually like using the man-o-war.

	15-11-2001 10:22									#44
	Enter the AD-FREE zone

Wow. This post got five stars :P

who doles out the ratings? :-D

	15-11-2001 21:25									#45
	best civ Got spare money?

my favourite civilization? bavarians!
why? there is no known protection against their ultimate unique bio-weapon: yellow alcohol...
every year in the late summer their capital is attacked by warriors of dozens of civilizations but every time they suffer a painful defeate.

	16-11-2001 22:45									#46
	Support Apolyton buy from Amazon

I challenge anyone who doubts the power of industriousness to play as the Persians or Chinese. Then go back and play a non-industrious Civ and you'll be cursing your damned workers for being so S L O W...
My vote is for the Persians, as I have done easily the best with them....
Anyone else and I cant get the advances fast enough...of course neither can the AI which is my biggest complaint about this game...

	17-11-2001 13:42									#47
	Support Apolyton, buy Galactic Civilizations

I'll have to admit; Americans.

	17-11-2001 16:49									#48
	Got spare money?

ROME is the best!
VENI VIDI VICI!

	19-11-2001 03:55									#49
	Tired of ads?

quote: Now, all of the above assumes roughly equal skill on the part of the players. If the greek player is better at manageing a war, uses superior tactics, and suprises the roman player, then the greek player will of course win. If the roman player has the edge in skill, then the decimation of the greek player will be all the swifter.

Completely agree... That's one of the beauties of the game (Go MP!!!)

quote: *** for tat

he he just like they censor magna *** laude

	19-11-2001 06:41									#50
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization: The Boardgame

Babylonians....

Scientific/Religious lets me build up a cultural juggernaught, able to assimilate cities left and right. Then, I can build a large army to subdue the rest of the world.

	21-11-2001 03:38									#51
	Ave Roma! Imperium Sine Fine! Support Apolyton, pre-order Civilization IV

Rome is the ABSOLUTE best. If they didnt kick so much a$$, well, they wouldnt kik so much a$$. I love Rome. if you do too, check this out Roma Invicta Ave Caesar! Friends, Romans, Countrymen, lend me you sleeping hours! We must conquer the computer. If the editor didnt suck, you could be d@#^ed sure id be making a slew of Rome based scenarios...alas

	21-11-2001 03:43									#52
	Post Script to my last post Increase Your PM Length

who keeps voting French? They suck. At their best they are just Gauls that adopted Roman ways, then were renamed by a bunch of rapist Germans who took over the country. I mean, their redeeming qualities definitely wouldnt make them second to the Romans.

pps- not only that, but their latin is atrocious. the spanish were farther away and they managed to remember how to pronounce the words a good deal better. see what happens when you let to many germans swim in the gene pool? tsk, barbarians. and yes, i know the visigoths invaded spain and ruled for a while. but the point still stands about language...

	24-11-2001 13:26									#53
	ISLAMIC NO SHOW Support Apolyton buy from Amazon

where are the Turks & Mongols?

Turkic People have had a huge impact on the history of mankind. Finland, Hungary, Bulgaria, Turkiye, Azerbaijan, Turkmenistan, Kazakistan, Uzbekistan, kirghizistan, Tajikistan, Northern Iraq, Northern Iran, Uyguristan (west province of China), Kazan and so many other places through out Russia have a Turkic heritage or share a kinship with them. To ignore this is to deny history...

I think it is due time to give at LEAST ONE member of the Altaic language branch their dues...

	29-11-2001 04:17									#54
	The British are more flexible. Support Apolyton, buy Alpha Centauri

I enjoy playing the British (English with some modifications) because it offers a lot of flexibility. I change the city list so I don't get that upset when I lose a city to another Civ. For example, I'll give my British cities names like Capetown and Singapore and so I don't mind too much if I lose them to the Germans or Chinese. I also enjoy establishing New York as a second capital with a Forbidden Palace and lots of modern Great Wonders.

	29-11-2001 10:08									#55
	Support Apolyton

it must be fun playing the romans since you can have such a vast empire and get leaders more frequently, but sometimes that can become a hassle. I love ancient warfare, so i love playing as persians, and i love the extra worker speed, it makes a really big diff. at the start of the game.

	29-11-2001 10:09									#56
	Re: ISLAMIC NO SHOW Avatar Enlargement: We've got the solution

quote: Originally posted by teturkhan where are the Turks & Mongols? Turkic People have had a huge impact on the history of mankind. Finland, Hungary, Bulgaria, Turkiye, Azerbaijan, Turkmenistan, Kazakistan, Uzbekistan, kirghizistan, Tajikistan, Northern Iraq, Northern Iran, Uyguristan (west province of China), Kazan and so many other places through out Russia have a Turkic heritage or share a kinship with them. To ignore this is to deny history... I think it is due time to give at LEAST ONE member of the Altaic language branch their dues...

I agree, i think someone is working on an expansion civilization where it includes arab nations.

	29-11-2001 14:18									#57
	I go for Romans Put an end to popups!

Workers are cheap, and the legion will beat an immortal if it's in a large city. Walls are also cheap to the Romans.

Industrious IS overrated as the early cities are focused on expanding, they only need 2 or 3 improved squares anyway. Plus, the legion's defence is not rivaled until you get to pikemen anyway, and only beaten until musketmen are available. AND it has 3 offence.

You gotta go with Rome.

	30-11-2001 05:40									#58
	Support Apolyton

i like the japanese....... but wish the mongols were in the game