21-11-2001 18:59									#61
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quote: Originally posted by Ted Striker I don't think so either, however that's a taboo thing to say in our pc world. I am not aware of any studies regarding intelligence comparisons between blacks and other races. Probably nobody has the balls to pull one off. Let's look at some more statements: 1) Men are physically stronger than women 2) Asians perform better at academics than whites

The American Psychological Association conducted a study of race and intelligence by using IQ tests without cultural bias on large numbers of people from different racial groups. It was found that blacks scored the lowest and asians the highest with whites slightly below the asians.

	21-11-2001 19:05									#62
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Thanks for the info Cal.

That reaffirms the anecdotal evidence most of us encounter.

Asians are always kicking ass at things like math over the whities and everybody else.

I got no problem with that.

	21-11-2001 19:27									#63
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Why are blacks less intelligent?

	21-11-2001 20:12									#64
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quote: Originally posted by Infatuation Why are blacks less intelligent?

Most likely because in africa the most valuable attributes for survival are physical strength and speed which naturally selected for those traits as opposed to intelligence.

	21-11-2001 20:17									#65
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quote: Originally posted by Ted Striker Thanks for the info Cal. That reaffirms the anecdotal evidence most of us encounter. Asians are always kicking ass at things like math over the whities and everybody else. I got no problem with that.

Glad to see that some people can accept scientific evidence without descending into pc hysteria. Just because a certain race generally less intelligent is no reason to hate them though, as I am sure you will agree.

	21-11-2001 20:48									#66
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Of course all of these tests don't take into account the quality of education that was recieved by the testees

Asian people may seem inherently smarter, but perhaps it is just that they work harder than whites? Blacks might seem inherently better athletes than whites, but perhaps they just apply themselves better and have a better work ethic, while the white boy sits at home and plays nintendo???

These results mean very little cal unless they were taken from a group of asians, blacks and whites who all grew up in the same enviornment, the same education and the same sort of parenting. As far as life skills go, IQ is very inconsequential anyway. As an employer for instance, I'd much rather have a man with an iq of 100 who will bust his ass for me than a lazy man with an iq of 150.

iq does not necessarily = value to society, so why use it as a measurement of a race's worth? (In a sense)

	21-11-2001 20:54									#67
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Racist left wingers, Blacks are not stupider. It all depends on environment. Black environment is a poorer one than Whites. That all goes back to slavery, where Blacks had no oppurtunity. If anyone is given the right materials, they can succeed regardless of race. None of you lily white liberals can judge a whole race's intelligience. I can see some examples here, the people here are overwhelmingly white and not too smart in the ways of common sense.
Asians are the smartest of all because the culture requires a strong work ethic

	21-11-2001 21:05									#68
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But the man who you dubbed the other "true conservative" doesnt agree with you bob

	21-11-2001 21:20									#69
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I don't get it.

So some of you consider it "okay" to put Asians above whites but it's not cool to blacks below ANYBODY.

Double standard PC taboo.

	21-11-2001 21:21									#70
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Who are you referring to ted?

	21-11-2001 21:30									#71
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You and Bob.



You just wanted me to say that so you could point it out to Bob. I see your ruse drake.

	21-11-2001 22:38									#72
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quote: Originally posted by Caligastia The American Psychological Association conducted a study of race and intelligence by using IQ tests without cultural bias on large numbers of people from different racial groups. It was found that blacks scored the lowest and asians the highest with whites slightly below the asians.

I ask again, how does this take into account the societal expectations that are imprinted on us--Asian, African, European--since day one of our lives?

Answer: It doesn't.

Once society starts expecting equality, and once equality is actually available through the education system, you'll see equality in "IQ tests without cultural bias."

	21-11-2001 22:39									#73
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I ain't getting in no fight with Ted Striker, only other true conservative. Bad try.

	21-11-2001 22:42									#74
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quote: Originally posted by Guynemer I ask again, how does this take into account the societal expectations that are imprinted on us--Asian, African, European--since day one of our lives? Answer: It doesn't.

You are just making assumptions, it is possible to test intelligence without cultural bias. For example you can test memory without culture being a factor.

	21-11-2001 22:48									#75
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It's real hard to say.

I think it's a mix of genetics and environment.

On the physical side, I think it's foolish to dismiss genetics as having a factor. On the intelligence side, there is less data. (excepting Cal's report).

And even if there were, I doubt it would be published. People won't react kindly to know that they're predisposed for failure.

My parents had two things they would NEVER tell us:

1) How much money they made
2) What are IQs were

The wanted us to work our butts off and be the best we could be. Probably in IQ tests, ignorance is bliss.

There are plenty of examples where races didn't perform to expectations.

Who the hell was that sprinter that humiliated Hitler? Was that Billy Owens?

You also have the Tuskegee Airmen, and that all Japanese fighting force that was the highest decorated unit in the second world war.

	21-11-2001 22:56									#76
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I am not discounting environment, but a good environment can only do so much. Its your genetics that determine your potential.

	21-11-2001 22:59									#77
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I generally agree with that.

Genetics will predetermine your potential.

However getting the right environement will determine how high or low within that potential that you reach.

	21-11-2001 23:07									#78
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quote: Originally posted by Ted Striker I generally agree with that. Genetics will predetermine your potential. However getting the right environement will determine how high or low within that potential that you reach.

Agreed.

I am trying to find a link to that study I was talking about...its interesting.

	21-11-2001 23:42									#79
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quote: I don't get it. So some of you consider it "okay" to put Asians above whites but it's not cool to blacks below ANYBODY. Double standard PC taboo.

Please point out where I said that Ted.

Common sense hasnt a thing to do with genetics. Common sense is a result of nurture, not nature. And common sense, in most cases, is a much more valuable ally in someones life than their intelligence, and will get them further and achieve more.

Now potential might be inherited, but what good is potential for the most part? Most humans are quite content for mediocricy and plateau at some point in their life. It is quite safe to say that very very few people even come close to their potential. Only in a proper environment can ones potential develop.

	21-11-2001 23:47									#80
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quote: Asian people may seem inherently smarter, but perhaps it is just that they work harder than whites? Blacks might seem inherently better athletes than whites, but perhaps they just apply themselves better and have a better work ethic, while the white boy sits at home and plays nintendo???

This was the one I'm talking about.

You didn't say specifcially what I that is the inference I got from it.

	22-11-2001 00:33									#81
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Well its a very bad interpretation Ted. I said Asian people may SEEM (seem), inherently smarter because of their work ethic. A dumb guy ( by your "genetic potential" theory) will seem to appear smarter than a smart guy who doesnt apply himself or wastes his potential.

So to spell it out in easier to understand terms (even though I thought it was quite clear), I don't think asians are smarter than whites in general, but they may appear that way because generally they work harder than whites.

	22-11-2001 01:41									#82
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Thanks!

Alright player you have made your case. I still don't agree with it fully but that's what we're here debating.

But being from the east coast, aren't you supposed to say, "let me put dis in terhms yous can undastand!"

	22-11-2001 01:44									#83
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Lousy asian drivers rated from worst to best!

1. Chinese
2. Korean
3. Japanese
4. Vietnamese

	22-11-2001 02:56									#84
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quote: Originally posted by Guynemer It has more to do with the environment than with genetics. In urban schools, to study and excel academically is considered "acting white" by some black students. (Not to mention the fact that the quality of available education is considerably less in urban schools.) Athleticism is the natural alternative.

Interestingly enough there is a disproportionate amount of world class long distance runners who hail from the African country of Kenya. The interesting aspect of this is that it has only been since the 1970's that long distance running in Kenya has been popularized. Now perhaps it's me, but I find it difficult to imagine that the social/cultural forces came on that strong to initiate the change that you're suggesting exists in the example above. I'm also under that assumption that this social/cultural force is one that has been acting upon the disenfrancised for many generations, which in turn fails to explain the sudden emergence of Kenyan long distance runners.

I'm not saying this cultural/social force doesn't exist, I'm just suggesting that the issue is more complex than what you've suggested and that genetics, perhaps, play a far more important role than what you've allowed for.

	22-11-2001 13:48									#85
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Well one thing I do want to point about Kenya is that they run EVERYWHERE, it's like their means of transportation...

	22-11-2001 15:43									#86
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quote: Originally posted by Ted Striker Well one thing I do want to point about Kenya is that they run EVERYWHERE, it's like their means of transportation...

I'd run everywhere too if I could run consistently at 20mph plus...

	23-11-2001 02:11									#87
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OK PCers get ready to flame!

I went to City schools growing up and it is my observation that Blacks are IMO less intelligent than the other races.
They are more athletic however.
I always atributed this to the fact that US blacks are the product of slavers grabing only the biggest and strongest.
They only wanted strong backs and intelligence was something they deffinately DID NOT want.
So I figured Blacks in Africa were probably smarter than american blacks. I dont know.

Any way The Remedial reading and general math classes in my High School were almost exclusively populated by blacks who btw had the same schooling and access to learning materials that the white kids had.

Of course, as in all rules, there were exceptions but by and large this is how it was.
Of course I attributed some of it to pure laziness as well.

Just recently my niece tranfered to my old High School due to parental dissagreement from an all white suburban school and I asked her what is was like being in classes with the others now.

Her answer was the blacks were nice but stupid.
The Porto-Ricans(sp?)were A-holes.

the responce of a 16 year old girl who never even had any real contact with these races.

Take this for what its worth
I will not respond to anything else on this matter.
It is all just my OBSERVASIONS and not open to debate.
For the record I do have black friends but of course I dont judge a man on the level of his intelligence or the color of his skin but for the content of his character. MLK

	26-11-2001 03:57									#88
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People are too afraid to speak their mind for fear of being too P.C. What a joke! This is the internet, its virtual, and you CAN say whatever you want. If you make fun of someone, the offendee should able to handle it. People are just too sensitive these days

	26-11-2001 21:12									#89
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The fact is that a lot of what we are is influenced by genetics. Just because in an ideal world everyone would have the same intelligence potential does not make it so. Nature knows no political correctness.

	26-11-2001 21:38									#90
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Well it's almost impossible to determine cal. As I stated, such a minute percentage of people actually come anywhere close to their genetic potential that it's close to being an irrelevent statistic. Who cares if a white guy has a greater capacity to learn than a black guy? It doesn't mean that he/she will become smarter than a black person who has lesser potential. Yes, we all can only do so much with what we were given, but as far as conventional, every day intelligence and logic, race doesnt really matter. It almost all has to do with enviornment.

A naturally born genius is worthless without the right environment and nurturing. A mediocre mind can far exceed a genius mind if that is developed properly.

Bottom line is, potential anything is a meaningless thing for the most part. It says nothing. Proves nothing. In the scheme of life is irrelevent.

In the end all this potential crap might do is provide an excuse for someone that is a failure. IE - I got cut from the team because I was a white boy (not because I was lazy and had a lousy work ethic) or I didn't get an A because I am black and the test is racist (rather than, I didn't get an A because I didn't study hard enough and I had a lousy work ethic).

Humans have slight variations, but we're all basically the same. Trying to pick apart differences just seems so pointless!