22-11-2001 03:22									#31
	Tired of ads?

If I had just bought the regular version I would say no it's a great game!! BUT I bought that !@#$^ing stupid LE version for $20 more. It SUCKS! So I have to say yes I feel cheated!

	22-11-2001 06:19									#32
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization: The Boardgame

quote: Originally posted by Boracks Do I feel cheated? No. Not at $50 Canadian (~$31 US). Am I disappointed? Mildly. Reading a number of the threads here, my gut feeling is what the game is lacking is POLISH. It has a rough feel to it. (And, yes, some have already said unfinished.) But I'm still losing too much sleep over it. Oh, and cheated? That would be when I bought 'Star General'. I couldn't give it away so the CD is now used in the garden to scare away birds. Boracks

Now lacking in a polish is a statement I agree with. I am curious if you have the same definition of polish that that I have.

The game has some bugs but that is to be expected yes they are annoying but I am sure they will be fixed. It also has some elements (diplomacy, UN options, editor) that feel like they aren't finished.

But mostly it is missing polish. The thing that I've always loved about Sid Meirs/Firaxis games is the extra special touches. I always felt playing their games that I had on my hard drive, a labor of love by skilled craftsman.

Civ2 would have been great game if without the advisors bickering, or elvis. I am sure I would have still enjoyed it without Wonder Movies. However, humor is a really nice addition to a strategy game.
Gettysburg would have been a very good game, without your aide-de-camp speaking to you about the upcoming battle, the great historical info in the game or manual, or the authentic bugle sounds in the battle.

SMAC: Had an interesting plot line, that was well integrated. Some great wonder movies, (The parody on microsoft's where do you want to go today was my favorite), the design workshop. And some wonderful spoken quotation when you discovered a new technology or a new improvement.
My all time favorite was the Military candance
"I don't know but I have been told"
"Diedre's got a network node....."
Everybody in the whole internet community got a kick out of that and you know the Firaxis team a blast recording in.

I really can't point to a single thing in Civ3 that I'll be able to quote in a few years. Although, I'll admit the AI is really good.

So me the only source of disappointment in Civ3 is the lack of polish. You guys have made a wonderful german chocolate cake, I just wish you had used a lot more icing, and hadn't bought it at the store.

	22-11-2001 07:44									#33
	Inflate your Upload Space

To clarify on my earlier point:

What I thought was possibly unimaginative was not the fact that Firaxis didn't copy and paste future techs from civ2. I was hoping they would actually think of some new ones themselves. Yes SMAC is a post-modern sci-fi game and Civ3 is not (Although you can make a ship that goes to AC; thats a little sci-fi) However, what I was hoping for was not a full-blown sci-fi game I hoped that Civ3 would sortof hint at humanity's furture in the way it hinted with the spaceship to AC. A lack of this gives an unfinished sense to the endgame. So what if your culture is the best. So what if you are the first to head to AC. So what if you are voted to lead the UN. Unless you have destoryed everyone else, there are still many nukes lying around and no diplomatic (prehaps arms control treaties) or technological (like nanites in CTP II) to solve it. I believe Civilization should give people the ablity to try to try to out do the current world leaders. Perhaps solve problems they can't. This would have been an ideal Civ3. The lack of this is what is unimaginative.

	22-11-2001 10:21									#34
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization III: Complete

I do feel cheated. I could care less about the balancing issues. From what I can tell the game would still be playable and enjoyable without a patch. The turn speed issue is the clincher for me. I don't have the hours (or days) to spend in order to finish a game. So far I have tried three games, but gave up and started over each time after getting frustrated with turn speed in the middle - modern ages.

I love the game, don't get me wrong! I just wish I could play it.

	22-11-2001 11:12									#35
	Lose 30 kilos (of popups)

i don't feel cheated, but I was dissapointed at first. Then I started playing and I realized this game is a great upgrade from civ2. That's basically what it is, and I can't imagine what else they could of done to change the TBS genre. It's turn by turn, build, conquer, etc. Cool new features though.

I can understand why others do feel cheated.

Civ3 was hyped, and there were many promises. MP being one. For many who pre-ordered (like me) MP was believed to be in. Sure if you kept in touch with the news you would of known about the MP cut... but not everyone can keep coming here to read what's new.

There were many promises about scenarios, and a scenario editor made before the realease, in the hype campaign. There was a promise of converted CIV2 scenarios, prepackaged scenarios, and a scenario maker. We got a quarter of that.

Reverting back to what someone said about the future, there was also word that civ3 was going to extend to 2500 AD. We all know it doesnt - so maybe this was a design choice (gets to long at the end?).

One thing though we should all remember is how much crying came out of apolyton when there was word that only 8 civs could play at a time. Well look at the game... we can play all 16 now, however if you ask me, 16 on huge map is too much/too big/not the way this game is to be played. 12 on large is bearable, 8 on standard is okay...

For some reason I think they (firaxis) had to scrap alot when reynolds left, or redo stuff. Sid's name is plastered on the logo and all -big deal- reynolds made civ live (IMO). Since no one here is on the inside (right?) we'll never know exactly what happened and what was lost.. the guy did leave right in the heat of the creation of this game.

Finally I don't think this is a good mark on infogrames and especially for firaxis. Both (up until now) have impressed me continuously on their games.

Maybe they will be real nice and give us plenty of goodies they didnt have a chance/time to put in, through a FREE PATCH/UPGRADE. Remember though that this is just a treat to calm all the barking dogs of the internet, because honestly, out of the thousands of copies being sold, how many of them will take the time to log online, check for a patch and upgrade.... the majority won't.

bottom line though, this game is great.

	22-11-2001 13:31									#36
	Increase the size of your Attachments

I've had Civ3 for a few weeks now and I feel GREAT about it! IMHO they took a few back steps or wrong turns in the way they handles certain things, but it is definitely an improvement of Civ2 which in of itself was a great game.

Also, the game is a fairly finished product. I never played MP from Civ 2 so don't miss it here, although it might a fun addition in the future. Also, I could care less about scenario editors. So, no, I don't feel cheated.

	23-11-2001 13:42									#37
	Full PM-box? Change here!

Update: Downloaded a warez version, tried both the 'long winded mod' and the 'balancer mod 1.4'. Abandoned the first one on emperor when all oil patches ended up on shore tiles. At that time I had 60% of the landmass. Won the second one on Deity in 1560 by domination.

Realized that the game still sucked.

Uninstalled it from hard-drive.

*Bah*

	23-11-2001 16:46									#38
	Remove this text

quote: Update: Downloaded a warez version, tried both the 'long winded mod' and the 'balancer mod 1.4'. Abandoned the first one on emperor when all oil patches ended up on shore tiles. At that time I had 60% of the landmass. Won the second one on Deity in 1560 by domination

of course the game sucks when you install mods like this.
the game is balanced if you play the original settings. If you alter the settings, you remove the ballance.

the game sucks ?
nah, the game rocks but if you want to play civ2, you'll like civ2 better and hate civ3.

	23-11-2001 16:58									#39
	Increase Your PM Length

quote: the game is balanced if you play the original settings

Surely you can accept the whole concept of balance is subjective? It's hardly an easily quantifiable thing now is it?

You believe it is 'balanced' because you like it as per release. Others are going to disagree. Why insist on chasing every comment from someone who doesn't like the game and telling them they are wrong? Of course they aren't wrong, it's how THEY feel. How YOU feel is not even a factor in my forming an opinion of the game, which is incidentally that is it's okay and has great potential but suffers from some misguided design decisions.

This is not personal chief - I'm just pointing out you are doing nothing but shooting blanks when you tell someone their impression of a game is wrong because it disagrees with yours.

	23-11-2001 17:02									#40
	Support Apolyton buy from Amazon

Nope. It's a good game, it worked for me right out of the box, it has depth, challenging AI, and pretty good 'immersion' (what I think of as graphics/sound/presentation) factors. I miss several elements from Civ2, but overall I'd much prefer to play this. I'll look forward to the patch and the mods that will follow, but until then, Civ3 is a blast.

Perhaps it's because I didn't really get interested in the game until around one month before release, or because I was never a Civ nut to begin with, and so I never had wildly high expectations. (I prefer Jagged Alliance-style games over the Call To Power series, which bored me. SMAC was fun, though.) But I bought the game, played the game, and I'm still playing, although I hope to play around with more units, improvements, wonders and civs when the mods start rolling in.

Simplistic, I know, but there's the answer to your question. UKP34.99 well spent, for me.

Be seeing you,

Saxman