06-12-2001 11:17									#31
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I just don't find that artillery is needed in most cases. I think that artillery should have a chance to hit every unit in a stack. This would make it a core component of the game. Right now it is possible to acheive conquest without ever building artillery.

Air and naval power is a whole different ballgame.

	06-12-2001 11:45									#32
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quote: Originally posted by jimmytrick I just don't find that artillery is needed in most cases...[snip]...Right now it is possible to acheive conquest without ever building artillery.

I guess. But whenever you have to fight civs that are more powerful than you, artillery has been incredibly useful for me. And really: how else do you hope to achieve conquest during that time period when Infantry (6.10.1) is the best defensive unit, and Cavalry (6.3.3) is the best offensive? I've found that the only surefire method is to bombard the city with 8 or more artillery units, and then charge in the the cavalry--usually works out quite well.

And here's something I've heard no one mention, but which is an incredibly effective strategy: when you are being bombarded by superior navel power, bombard his ships with artillery; then you can even win with a frigate vs. ironclad, and other such mismatches. After a while, he'll quit bombarding you so much if it isn't a serious war, such as one where he was dragged in by a treaty (and you can make him pay you for peace).

	06-12-2001 20:54									#33
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I find that bombardment for a Civ III general is about as useful as a parachute for a skydiver.

Recently went to war with Aztecs, who had a fully-improved continent to themselves. Size 12-16 cities, all railed together. When my first expeditionary force landed, the Aztecs switched to Communism. Before you could say 'uh-oh', they'd drafted/rushed production to half their cities' sizes, my stacks were surrounded and obliterated (though not without causing some enemy casualties.)

I could've kept on sending more, but it was a war that I could not win, moving at 1 square per turn, unable to heal, while his units were teleporting around and insta-healing. I couldn't transport enough units quickly enough to counter his production/drafting.

I decided to try preparing for the next assault. A line of destroyers, battleships, and ironclads swept down the coast, guns blazing. Landed two 'sanitizing' groups (half arty, half infantry) on mountain squares, which proceeded to blast everything in range.

*Boom boom* There goes the enemy rail network, no more teleporting their units around to overwhelm mine. Enemy production/food takes a cut.

*Boom boom* There goes the enemy roads, mines, and irrigation. No more enemy units moving at 3 times my units' speeds. Enemy production seriously reamed, no more hordes of enemy units being quickly produced. Starvation in big cities, no more rapid growth to draft and rush production. No more trade network, no more resources, no luxuries. Civil disorder further hampers enemy production.

Now my tanks arrive, escorting settlers. "Once again, our magnificent armies are victorious!" Again, and again, and again. City captured, settler added, resistance quelled. I'm currently looking at three isolated size 1 cities remaining.

Without bombardment...endless, costly, and utterly useless war. With bombardment...quick, clean, total conquest.

Besides, it's nice to see those ugly rail-covered continents swept clean...back to nature.

	06-12-2001 21:30									#34
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Artillery is extremely effective if used in numbers. Some examples from my games:

* Enemy moves into your country with Tanks and stops at some mountain. You have a very hard time taking those tanks out. But artillery seems to be just as effective on mountainous terrain as on any terrain, so just damage the to 1 and kill the Tanks even with some spare Cavalry.

* Blast enemy cities and defending units to obliteration. This way you can take many enemy cities without own losses.

	06-12-2001 23:29									#35
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It really would be sweet if the ai were programmed to use artillery. The game would be more challenging if it would have one or two in every city and some out in the field well defended. It shouldn't be hard to program it to do that, its quite a formulaic thing, build art. garrison with infantry, use on enemy units when in range, and BUILD FORTS(near borders would be a good place). Has anyone seen the ai build forts? I haven't, I've seen them use one of mine once that I foolishly left empty, but actually, the units didn't dig in and either left it or pillaged it.

I think the patch did say that the ai was improved, maybe it will have some things like these in its bag of tricks then.

	07-12-2001 00:41									#36
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quote: Originally posted by Aurochs ... Now my tanks arrive, escorting settlers. "Once again, our magnificent armies are victorious!" Again, and again, and again. City captured, settler added, resistance quelled. I'm currently looking at three isolated size 1 cities remaining. ...

What's this? Do you capture (not raze) the city and add a settler to moderate resistance & chance of defecting back?? (Or were you razing and then just starting a new city with your settler)?

Does it work well?

	07-12-2001 01:23									#37
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I think the people who claim bombardment isn't too useful are nuts. It's crazy-powerful (though I wouldn't change it since it's so brilliant). Artillery on offense (assuming you have enough units) allows you to:
- take out all the roads into your target city instantly
- pound the city down below size 13/7, giving your ground units a big advantage
- take out barracks, harbours, airports, walls, doing the same
- take the defending units down to 1 hit point, which usually lets you can take the city without losing a unit
- take the city down to a very small size, which for me has completely eliminated defections after I capture it.
On defense, they're perhaps even more powerful. Hordes of attackers running back to their borders without even trying an attack on your city or pillaging an improvement, and all without you suffering a single hit of damage. Of course, you can pick off the weakened attackers, too.
All these are things that either cannot be done by regular units, or can only be done at greater risk.

	07-12-2001 01:31									#38
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I find artillery on the defense useful as well, the free attack they get when the square they preside in is attacks can really help the defenders. (bringing a Veteran unit basically down to a conscript.)

	07-12-2001 01:31									#39
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Artillery is also very useful for coastal defense against ships that cruise along your coasts taking out improvements. After you hit the ships a couple times, they usually go home.

	07-12-2001 01:40									#40
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quote: Originally posted by ElitePersian get a bunch of them together, and you can TOAST the AI.

I build a lot of cannons while waiting to get to replaceable parts so when I do I can upgrade all of them to artillery for 20 gold a piece(only 10 with leo's!) in a turn or two, then say 'good luck' to the poor ai civ next to me.