06-12-2001 16:43									#61
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My 2c (hey I can say that now without sounding American - we have cents too now!)

I drive a manual, and always will. I don't like driving automatics at all, unless they are really expensive luxury cars. Most automatics do not have good enough acceleration for me, so I prefer a manual.

Having said that, some automatics are nice to drive - my brother has one of the new Jaguars in Automatic and I find that accelerates fine.

But even quite expensive American cars are really horrible in automatic. For example, I hired a Mercury Grand Marquis a while back - it was very luxurious inside but was a pig for acceleration. Ugh. The same is true for smaller cheaper American cars that I have hired, like the Pontiac Trans Am.

While we are talking about cars, I recently switched to my winter tyres, but since I bought a new car this year, I decided to get new tyres. Anyway, there are essentially two grades of winter tyre, one really good grade that have no speed restrictions and one grade that you should not drive at speeds greater than 190kmph (120mph). I bought the lower grade (since they were considerably cheaper and I don't often drive that fast in winter), but I had to by law put a speed warning sticker on my dashboard to remind me that I shouldn't drive over 190kmph!

	06-12-2001 17:38									#62
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quote: Originally posted by Eroberer I still think that is ridiculus, PH. I have a 1.6 liter in my Civic, and the best I've gotten is 56. There are hybrid gas-electric vehicles that don't get 50mpg (although I can't explain it, the Toyota Prius is one). Do you know how much your car weighs? Is it something where your mile is shorter, and your gallon is bigger? I thought UK gallon was smaller, but I just thought of measurement differences. What are your exact figures?

It is actually light, I don't have the weight at hand, but I think our gallon is bigger than yours, so this may account for the difference...but I can quite comfortably do 400 miles on a tank (and not a very big tank either, about £30 of petrol at UK prices). Or maybe it is that my maths a cacked up trying to convert from metric.

	06-12-2001 17:50									#63
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BTW, the Civic isn't a small car over here, it is a bog standard sized saloon car over here. My car has a kerb weight of around 860kg, whatever that means

Attachment: 106.jpg
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	06-12-2001 18:41									#64
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Huh?

Aren't Civics made by Honda? That piccy is a Puegot (sp?) - look at the logo!

And I think a Civic (the one I know at least) is pretty small by American standards.

	06-12-2001 18:51									#65
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See the post above it. It is Eroberer who has the Civic. I have the 106.

	06-12-2001 18:53									#66
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quote: Originally posted by Provost Harrison See the post above it. It is Eroberer who has the Civic. I have the 106.

Ah - sorry - I understand now

	06-12-2001 19:06									#67
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quote: Originally posted by aaglo In the manual gearstick: 1,2,3,4,5 and R for Rally

Yeah, that's right. I tell you what you should do: try changing from 5th to reverse *ahem* rally at, let's say 70mph. You will get some interesting results (like your gearbox dropping out)

Yeah, I have the 106 1124cc which has a real good fuel economy. It is also pretty quick as well, can leave those big nasty fuelguzzling big cars behind at moving off However the bigger ones catch up later

	06-12-2001 19:10									#68
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I saw a mustang the other day with an automatic.....so sad

	06-12-2001 19:17									#69
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Saras, that's a bit of a surprise. Acura, MB, Lexus, and Jaguar as well as cheaper makes do exactly what I describe. I always figured the manumatics had potential (to be better), but I didn't know someone had actually done it.

Monoriu, the 2 and Low settings are for going downhill, and it is very advisable to use them, as otherwise you eat up brakes. As Big Crunch said, you can get down a mountain without using the brakes at all. Also, the N stands for neutral, technically, which is "no gear." =)

Rogan, yea, some top-class automatics are great. They shift super fast, and the engineers actually spend time coming up with proper torque-converter lock-up times (and I'll admit I'm scant in this knowledge), so that it is similar to a manual. I'd still rather take a manual in any of those cars, but whatever

PH, gotcha. I had just assumed it was a Civic-sized car. 400 miles on a tank of gas in that class is pretty amazing, though, just because the tank is probably pretty small. How much can you put in there? I can get 11 gallons in mine and the most I've ever been was 320 miles (IIRC), and I was panicking.

Edit: PH, there is no way in hell you leave any big cars behind on the line. I bet you're racing them without letting them know.

Drake, yea, one of my friends has a 260-bhp 2000 Mustang GT, with an automatic. He said it was the last one on the lot. I just couldn't understand it, although I was somewhat glad when I had to ride home in the snow with him once. =P

	06-12-2001 19:26									#70
	Re: Automatic or Manual (driving poll) Put an end to popups!

quote: Originally posted by drake So, to the people that drive, do you drive a vehicle with an automatic transmission or a manual? Which is better? Why?

Manuals are more fun to drive and they're cheaper. But...
1) They really suck in heavy traffic.
2) If you have a bad knee (like I do) an hour of driving in heavy stop and go traffic really starts hurting after a while.

Having owned a manual for a while now, I know that on my next car, which won't be for a while, I'd like an automatic.

I really, really like Toyota's Prius. I test-drove it at a dealer near to me. I told the guy that if I was in the market to but a new car (but I'm not), I'd get a Prius no question.

	06-12-2001 19:30									#71
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Speaking of snow (and ice), stick shift is much better than auto. Brakes in nasty weather should be used minimally if possible, and it's always nice to be able to slow things down without brakes. Bogging the engine a down a bit while accelerating (or while trying to regain control in a slip) will slow down the wheels spinning and provide better traction and is a nice option.

Yeah, I don't think the people provost is "racing" are racing him A big car, with a nice big engine, like a caddy, when pushed can really move. Smooth as butter as well!

	06-12-2001 19:31									#72
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quote: Originally posted by Rogan Josh And I think a Civic (the one I know at least) is pretty small by American standards.

Unfortunately, that's true. The new "American standard" now seems to be giant SUV's, large tanks, etc.: anything that gets less than 2 mpg.

I'm glad to say that I get above 30 mpg in my civic. I drive pretty aggressive so that tends to lower it, but still

	06-12-2001 19:32									#73
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What the hell is a prius? Never heard of it

	06-12-2001 19:35									#74
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jlc, the fuel milage on the Prius has not been confirmed by any source I've seen. Car&Driver and Road&Track both couldn't get more than around 40-mpg out of it. IIRC, it also is more temperature sensitive, weather-wise, so milage gets worse when it's colder (again, IIRC). Plus, I don't know what they had you on to get you over the looks.

	06-12-2001 19:41									#75
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Drake, I forgot engine braking. Well this guy didn't want "anything more to worry about" when he got his automatic, so what're the chances he knew that little trick? We'd have been off in a ditch somewhere.

Can't you also startoff in second gear, when the road is slippery, to keep more control. I know the Ferrari 360 Modena with the F1 shifter has a setting like this for snow, but it seems to me like you'd get just as much wheel slip.

Also, the Toyota Prius is a gas-electric hybrid, much like the Honda Insight (whose fuel milage has been confirmed).

Jlc, yea, I don't get but 27-mpg now. =) I used to try to conserve gas, but it's more fun the other way.

	06-12-2001 19:53									#76
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Manuals are good in areas without traffic but in a congested city you would definitely want an automatic.
Seeing as I live in NYC I dont need a car and if I did I would get an automatic for sure. I used to enjoy driving manuals back home in NZ though.

	06-12-2001 19:57									#77
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Someone said that before cal, and I still disagree with it

	06-12-2001 20:00									#78
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quote: Originally posted by drake Someone said that before cal, and I still disagree with it

Why? You must really love manuals...I do too, but they are a pain in traffic.

	06-12-2001 20:00									#79
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You can engine brake an automatic, it's just got to be at city speeds, that's what the 2 and L are for

	06-12-2001 20:08									#80
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Blah. 2 and L are so vague, though. =P

Cal, maybe if I drove in traffic everyday I'd think different, but I doubt it. I take very little extra effort to get a manual through traffic than an automatic.

	06-12-2001 20:44									#81
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I do drive everyday in thick traffic. Mind you it isn't LA or NYC traffic, but it's still thick at times. I don't think I've ever once thought while sitting in traffic, that I'd rather have an automatic. I guess it really comes down to preference.

	06-12-2001 20:51									#82
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quote: Originally posted by drake I do drive everyday in thick traffic. Mind you it isn't LA or NYC traffic, but it's still thick at times. I don't think I've ever once thought while sitting in traffic, that I'd rather have an automatic. I guess it really comes down to preference.

It only becomes a problem when you are stuck in traffic for a long time, like an hour or so.

	06-12-2001 21:13									#83
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I leave work at 4 pm usually. If I left at 5, I would have that "over an hour in traffic" problem.

I'm usually too busy getting mad at people cutting others off or jamming to some music to even notice the physical motions of shifting or clutching. It's not like you have to think about it....it just becomes naturally part of the ride...and ya get used to it

	06-12-2001 21:22									#84
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quote: Originally posted by drake I leave work at 4 pm usually. If I left at 5, I would have that "over an hour in traffic" problem. I'm usually too busy getting mad at people cutting others off or jamming to some music to even notice the physical motions of shifting or clutching. It's not like you have to think about it....it just becomes naturally part of the ride...and ya get used to it

I know what you mean, I have a lot of experience in driving a manual. I guess it does take more than an hour before you notice it, but eventually your clutch leg does get tired. If you live somewhere that has horrendous traffic (LA) you would probably have a sore leg every day!

	06-12-2001 21:48									#85
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I have never seen any problem with driving a manual in busy traffic. So you have to use the clutch. Diddums.

	06-12-2001 21:50									#86
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quote: Originally posted by Provost Harrison I have never seen any problem with driving a manual in busy traffic. So you have to use the clutch. Diddums.

Try doing it for 3 hours in stop start traffic and you will see what we are talking about.

	06-12-2001 21:53									#87
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quote: Originally posted by Caligastia Try doing it for 3 hours in stop start traffic and you will see what we are talking about.

Well you'd be quicker walking then

	06-12-2001 21:57									#88
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quote: Originally posted by Provost Harrison Well you'd be quicker walking then

Quick to abandon your car arent you? It must be a piece of ****!

	06-12-2001 22:23									#89
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Well if it took me 3 hours to drive to work I would walk, as I could walk that distance in 1 1/2 hours Thinking of the environment you see

	06-12-2001 22:25									#90
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quote: Originally posted by Provost Harrison Well if it took me 3 hours to drive to work I would walk, as I could walk that distance in 1 1/2 hours Thinking of the environment you see

Unfortunately traffic jams are not always predictable.