13-12-2001 15:21									#31
	Get a bigger avatar today!

Bought CTP2 when it came out. Played half a game and then de installed it. One of the worst games I've ever played.

Would have thought I'd learnt from CTP1.

Tried it again after looking at what Venger said in his post last week, just in case there was something about the game that I had missed.

I hadn't, that is still one poor game(couldn't get past that dreadful menu).

	13-12-2001 20:59									#32
	Support Apolyton, buy Call to Power 2

*kicks Yin in head*

	13-12-2001 20:59									#33
	Support Apolyton, buy GURPS/ Alpha Centauri

quote: I'd just like to say right here that I prefer to be kicked in the head. Thank you for listening.

OMG, that's so graphic!!!

Must admit, this thread turned quite anti-CtP2 ...

	14-12-2001 00:31									#34
	Get a bigger avatar today!

Moraelin,

All I can tell you is that while yes, the AI almost always demands favourable trade terms (not always....I have had Ghandi at no prompting from me offer me a tech for 1 gold and I can often get a straight luxury for luxury trade from a civ.......it seems to be related to how many of that luxury they have....I noticed that if a civ has all of the available luxuries of a certain type, the price rises astronomically....but if a lot of civs have the same luxury available the price becomes very reasonable), I am constantly able to make reasonable trades with the AI and I can, if I work at it, get at least half of the AI in a 16 civ game to Gracious. It does take work, but it can be done without breaking the bank.

As far as getting to peace, I can also only surmise that you don't have a big army. I have almost never seen an AI civ attack me, get beaten, make peace, and go after me again. They seem to learn lessons real fast. In addition, I can only think of two times where I could not at least negotiate a peace with any civ after 10 turns of war. Those two times were with civs I had just continually backstabbed in the most heinous ways (i.e. Right of Passage and then boom, DOW).

At least consider this Moraelin....since other people, me included, are not having the same problems you are having, it might be something that you are doing that can be adjusted.

Devin

	14-12-2001 00:52									#35
	Support Apolyton

CTP2 as a concept is a much better game than Civ 3, I mean if CTP2 had the Civ 3 AI it would kick ***, but then again I think the Civ 3 AI is only good because there is nothing that complex to figure out, no ZOC and no stacking. AI really does not use armies. The CTP2 AI has to use armies, the attack has to be planed so much more in CTP2 because of that. Also the AI lacks the ability to form alliances with each other so some things just can't be done. I'm really disappointed in both CTP2 and Civ 3 even though I enjoy playing both. I guess I just expect too much.

	14-12-2001 13:53									#36
	Support Apolyton, pre-order Civilization IV

H Tower, just try the CRADLE of Civ mod, It is the best I have ever played. I have been up until 3am the last two nights, and I have to head for work at 6.30am. I have not even tried the highest level yet, but the AI is whupping my ***.

This aint CTP2, Believe me!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


CRADLE CRADLE CRADLE

are listening Venger

CRADLE CRADLE CRADLE

forget the rest.

Easy to download too. TRY IT

	14-12-2001 19:10									#37
	Support Apolyton, buy GURPS/ Alpha Centauri

Yes Cradle is the best mod so far, espeacially the new goods are pritty .

But one question about coruption in just conquered cities: I thought there is a kill city option for just conquered cities in Civ3. So why you don't get rid of such cities or didn't they implemented this feature into Civ3. That would be funny as I heard from that feature, I had to implement it into CTP2 .

quote: like for example dyes

From where I stole this? However you can find it in Cradle, too.

-Martin

	15-12-2001 10:17									#38
	Still With CTP2 Avatar Enlargement: We've got the solution

I'm playing Cradle with the AI boost mod. The AI has a big advantage in size, so it has been challenging (I just lost 3 games in a row - which may say something about my ability). With Cradle I am getting somewhat decent attacks (size 12 stacks after my cities, and any loose units I have are at risk), but the AI will still abandon cities sometimes after taking them, and often pass up a good opportunity to cream one of my smaller armies.

I have also changed the goody hut probabilities so that there's 0 chance of units, but overall increased chance of nomads, techs, barbs, gold, etc. to avoid a bug that hangs up the computer. Speeds up the game, but no freebie units... 6 of one, ...

Apolyton & Cradle - great improvements over the out of the box CTP2. Med Mod next. (Many Thanks to the hard working modders - hex, dale, wes,...)

I like many aspects of CTP - the stacked combat (although no MOM), PW, slavers, other special units (yes - they can be annoying used against you so I'd like to be able to tone them down for everyone), etc. I just wish it had had a kick-a$$ AI.

Of course, I am playing this while I wait for CivIII. And don't "the girls all get purtier at closin' time"?

	15-12-2001 17:42									#39
	Re: Still With CTP2 Support Apolyton, buy Galactic Civilizations

quote: Originally posted by Changmai Beagle I like many aspects of CTP - the stacked combat (although no MOM), PW, slavers, other special units (yes - they can be annoying used against you so I'd like to be able to tone them down for everyone), etc. I just wish it had had a kick-a$$ AI.

What is MOM?

	15-12-2001 18:16									#40
	MOM Browse Apolyton AD-FREE

Master of Magic. I think it came out between CivI and CivII, and was basically Civ Magic. It had an excellent turn-based tactical combat screen. You moved squadrons of archers, slingers, priests, etc. or single fighters (wizards, mages, dragons...). Each squadron had a fighting range, so combined arms was important. Walls were an obstacle that had to be broken down while under fire, etc.

Age of Wonders battles are similar. Much less static than Heroes of Might and Magic.

Key point - your tactical decisions on army composition and on the field made a difference. Psst- in case anyone from Firaxis is listening... Some people might buy a tactical battle add on like that (with some scenarios of course)

P.S. Also on the Modders thanks list - Martin of course (a Good man) and IW

	19-12-2001 21:09									#41
	Support Apolyton, buy Galactic Civilizations: Deluxe Edition

Actually Civ3 far outdoes CTP/2 in the diplomacy arena. It takes about 2000 years to build a GOOD relationship with the AI. This was true in Civ2 and brought over in Civ3. After keeping them happy from begining of the game till 2000 years. They actually are giving you things!


CTP2 the AI was woefully incosistent. Alliance members werent good for anything. Except the fact that they moved into your land and fortified hoplites and warriors on your road and new capital (GRRR ) and since With withdraw script doesnt work ( ) its pointless to demand they leave!

Oh yea...CTP2 ai could have 12 tanks in a city...you can have a warrior pillage EVERY tile improvement and the tanks WILL NOT attack the warrior!? WTF IS THAT!?


Also, one must consider the sheer stupidity of artificial intellegence before buying the game! Considering you could of conquered every one of England cities...have tanks paused right outside there last city...Make peace...then they DEMAND you leave! You reject...they DECLARE WAR threatening to eliminate you!


Arg and withdraw doesnt work! So AI units are in borders forever...


CURSE YOU ACTIVISION SCUM-BAGS

	19-12-2001 23:34									#42
	Inflate your Upload Space

quote: Originally posted by faded glory Actually Civ3 far outdoes CTP/2 in the diplomacy arena. It takes about 2000 years to build a GOOD relationship with the AI. This was true in Civ2 and brought over in Civ3. After keeping them happy from begining of the game till 2000 years. They actually are giving you things! CTP2 the AI was woefully incosistent. Alliance members werent good for anything. Except the fact that they moved into your land and fortified hoplites and warriors on your road and new capital (GRRR ) and since With withdraw script doesnt work ( ) its pointless to demand they leave! Oh yea...CTP2 ai could have 12 tanks in a city...you can have a warrior pillage EVERY tile improvement and the tanks WILL NOT attack the warrior!? WTF IS THAT!? Also, one must consider the sheer stupidity of artificial intellegence before buying the game! Considering you could of conquered every one of England cities...have tanks paused right outside there last city...Make peace...then they DEMAND you leave! You reject...they DECLARE WAR threatening to eliminate you! Arg and withdraw doesnt work! So AI units are in borders forever... CURSE YOU ACTIVISION SCUM-BAGS

At first faded glory you are right if you are talking about an unmodded CTP2, we all know I know CTP2 out of the box sucks. Therefore I wonder if you ever used one of the mods like Cradle, MedPack2, GoodMod with Apolyton Pack.

All these possibilies that I mentioned uses Diplomod 3.5 or 3.6 by default. Meaning they include a version of withdraw script that works.

I would suggest that you should first try one of these mods and than you can complain. You will see that a lot can be added and fixed, as CTP2 is heavily moddable. And if you don't like the modded versions of CTP2 you can still go back to Civ3.

Where you have to deal with hundrets of settlers ok now that are workers but the effect of them is the same like it was with the settlers in Civ2. In order to build tile improvements everywhere you will get hundrets of them soon. Therefore have fun with wasting the time to move them.

So you can deal again with an AI that do not have to cope with ZOCs and stacks. There is no question that such an AI is better. But it is unrealistic if an obsolete unit can kill a stack of 11 advanced units and an obsoöete unit.

Another point is that the AI has major cheats concerning your army. Therefore it is no question again that this AI is better. But in comparision to CTP2 you can't reprogram the AI and the diplomacy via slic, fixes depents on Firaxis and a modder will never get that freedom to do in Civ3 like in CTP2 as a scripting language is missing in Civ3.

At least one note about Alliances you need them if you want to achieve the diplomacy victory and if you want to build the Gaja Controller and your empire is to small.

-Martin

	23-12-2001 04:25									#43
	Support Apolyton, buy Galactic Civilizations: Deluxe Edition

CTP2 definately has its strong points (i traded it in when i bought civ 3 but may buy it again - esp if a lord of the rings mod comes out or is already out - i am about to look into it)

it also has multiplayer, and u can micrmanage to the smallest detail - my only gripe was that the AI was unchallenging and a bit stupid a lot the time

good game though - and it deserved to have done better commercially

	23-12-2001 04:56									#44
	Support Apolyton

quote: Originally posted by Vargas920 CTP2 definately has its strong points (i traded it in when i bought civ 3 but may buy it again - esp if a lord of the rings mod comes out or is already out - i am about to look into it)

Ah yes, a LotR scenario. How many brave attempts have started and failed... Well, 3 actually. Including a Belgian, and Icelander, and a Brit.

I have been keeping all the stuff together, so if you go for it, there are quite a few unit sprites, a map and some city sprites to work with already.

	07-01-2002 14:23									#45
	Civ 3 and multiplayer support Suffering from ads?

Seems everybody just doest say anything about multiplayer support! ...

I cant see how its possible to bring out a strategy game (civ3) without multiplayer support!

Remeber civ (the original) why did we see civ-net then? hello are we gonna see civ3-net too (nice marketing there buddy)

I'm so freaked out about this i wanna bite something!

MULTIPLAYERRRRRRRR!

	07-01-2002 17:30									#46
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization III: Complete

Weeeell, I managed to put my hands on a second-hand copy that I bought off eBay - twenty bucks. I'll let you all know what i think once I have it installed with a few mods etc

I haven't played Civ3 in weeks ... the thing is collecting dust. Probably take it back to EB and part-ex it next time I'm looking for a game.

	07-01-2002 19:48									#47
	Support Apolyton

quote: Originally posted by Kolyana Weeeell, I managed to put my hands on a second-hand copy that I bought off eBay - twenty bucks. I'll let you all know what i think once I have it installed with a few mods etc I haven't played Civ3 in weeks ... the thing is collecting dust. Probably take it back to EB and part-ex it next time I'm looking for a game.

Kolyana, be sure to get ModSwapper and the latest Cradle Mod.

Venger