07-01-2002 08:59									#61
	Lose 30 kilos (of popups)

How about a new game to go along with that patch?

I'm back playing Civ II scenarioes (Hint for patch)

	07-01-2002 14:29									#62
	MAKE REAL ALLIES!!! Support Apolyton buy from Amazon

- In Civilization III you never make real allies, they never give to you gifts, like gold or technology (in Civ2 the another allies civs gives to you gifts), and If you ask for a "ally" for a technlogy, gold, luxuries or resources they NEVER gives to you, and also they can maked annoyed, caution or furious if you ask for that many times.

- Please show a pop up message when a city is captured or taked back from another civs in war (we do not have to see always to the map to see what cities the another civs are loosing or taking at the war).

PLZ PLZ PLZ make something about that Firaxis...

I dont agree when you make a Mutual Protect pact you have to automatcly have a right of passage. Eg: OTAN is a great Mutual Protect Pac, but English troops can walk along the USA?

Well, that´s it. Do you agree with me, dont you?

(Sorry, my english is not good, but I believe you can understand)

Last edited by LordLothaR-Az on 07-01-2002 at 14:55

	07-01-2002 15:07									#63
	Support Apolyton, buy Call to Power 2

I'm beginning to wonder if there is going to be another patch. I may be talking out of my rear end here (I'm not up to speed on either the forums or any chats) but it doesn't seem like anyone at Firaxis has mentioned anything about another patch for a good little while now. But again, I could be wrong.

Here's to hoping.

LR

	07-01-2002 16:01									#64
	Re: MAKE REAL ALLIES!!! Support Apolyton or Terrorists Win

quote: Originally posted by LordLothaR-Az - In Civilization III you never make real allies, they never give to you gifts, like gold or technology (in Civ2 the another allies civs gives to you gifts), and If you ask for a "ally" for a technlogy, gold, luxuries or resources they NEVER gives to you, and also they can maked annoyed, caution or furious if you ask for that many times. - Please show a pop up message when a city is captured or taked back from another civs in war (we do not have to see always to the map to see what cities the another civs are loosing or taking at the war). PLZ PLZ PLZ make something about that Firaxis... I dont agree when you make a Mutual Protect pact you have to automatcly have a right of passage. Eg: OTAN is a great Mutual Protect Pac, but English troops can walk along the USA? Well, that´s it. Do you agree with me, dont you? (Sorry, my english is not good, but I believe you can understand)

I've discovered that CTP2 can do it! You can implement (almost) whatever you like in CTP2! And now I love CTP2

The only problem of CTP2 is that Activision is missing

	08-01-2002 04:24									#65
	Re: Civ 3 patch Support Apolyton, buy Civilization: The Boardgame

quote: Originally posted by mattbolas Maybe Fireaxis can restrict the max number of units produced, rather prohibiting building any units. Fireaxis could add a option to the standard game that the user could simply could turn on or turn off the restrictive Strategic resources rule or select an alternate rule.

I agree. I like the idea of the resources, but I think it could be implemented more realistically. I was thinking that if there were a limit to how many cities could be supported by a single resource, rather than one source supplying the entire civilization, they could still play a strategic role in the game without crippling a player if they disappear. You'd simply need more of them in order to support a larger empire. That would make trading arrangements with other civs more dynamic as well.

	08-01-2002 04:39									#66
	Another suggestion Suffering from ads?

A very simple change: when a city has filled its growth box, but would not be able to sustain itself with one more citizen, don't let the city grow. Leave the growth box full.

This will happen when a city has no free squares with reasonable food production around. It can happen in the early game with cities surrounded by mountains and/or penned in by cultural borders, and it happens a lot in the late game when cities grow to more than 30 citizens.

The problem is that cities in this situation often get into a growth/starvation cycle, with N citizens and +1 nutrients for a while, only to grow to N+1 citizens and -1 nutrients and starve the next turn.

The Longevity wonder should also respect this, and only grow by one citizen if one more is sustainable but two is not.

	08-01-2002 05:05									#67
	Re: Another suggestion Support Apolyton, buy Civilization III: Complete

quote: Originally posted by andeen A very simple change: when a city has filled its growth box, but would not be able to sustain itself with one more citizen, don't let the city grow. Leave the growth box full. This will happen when a city has no free squares with reasonable food production around. It can happen in the early game with cities surrounded by mountains and/or penned in by cultural borders, and it happens a lot in the late game when cities grow to more than 30 citizens. The problem is that cities in this situation often get into a growth/starvation cycle, with N citizens and +1 nutrients for a while, only to grow to N+1 citizens and -1 nutrients and starve the next turn. The Longevity wonder should also respect this, and only grow by one citizen if one more is sustainable but two is not.

And tell that stupid advisor to shut up about building an Aqueduct if there's no excess food being produced. I have several cities on my plains that I've purposefully halted at a population of 6 or 7, whatever, since I don't see the point in having my Workers continually chop down forests and irrigate. They can be put to better use elsewhere. Yet I still get reminded about building an Aqueduct.

Oh yeah, one other thing. I'd like to see a Zoom To option on those particular pop ups, the ONLY ones that don't include this. I have no opportunity to have a look at the cities the advisor is talking about in order to see whether building one is even worth it or not.

	08-01-2002 07:49									#68
	Re: Re: MAKE REAL ALLIES!!! Avatar Enlargement: We've got the solution

quote: Originally posted by odisseus I've discovered that CTP2 can do it! You can implement (almost) whatever you like in CTP2! And now I love CTP2 The only problem of CTP2 is that Activision is missing

HEY! I got CTP2 but haven't really played it. I noticed the forum is dead. How do you customize it - plz tell me! Have you got a script or something I could see?

	08-01-2002 08:06									#69
	Support Apolyton, pre-order Civilization IV

quote: Originally posted by zorbop ***** a better way to incorperate corruption. maybe it could be calculated by the distance it is from capital by calculating movement points. so building roads lowers coruption manhattan project should be a minor wonder THE MANUAL SHOULD BE EDITED!!! there should be a new form of settler(like engineers in civ2) one that would start a city with certain improvements. more bonusses should come to expansionist civs, like faster sea movement or settlers at the cost of 1 pop and finally GUYS WITH STONE AXES AND POINTY STICKS SHOULDN'T BE ABLE TO BEAT TANKS!!!OR EVEN HURT THEM expanding on that, certain units shouldn't function at all verses others, and should either be captured or simply die. E-theres no way a warrior could hurt a tank, so there shouldn't be combat between the 2, the tank should win auto. E2-a gally isn't equiped to fight a sub, so the sub shouldn't be hurt by it and should win 100% of the time.

Good point about corruption. Corruption seems to be overdone. Too few ways to fight it.

I disagree with most of the rest of this post tho. Particularly:

1) Settlers who build cities pre-equipped with certain improvements. Well, what's the difference really? Surely you would have to pay a lot of shields for such a settler. You can build up a city pretty rapidly by other means (workers, joining, rushing, disbanding obsolete units...)

2) More bonuses for expansionist?!? I don't think so. I find expansionist civs to be the easiest to play already...

3) Guys with sticks vs. tanks. Well, I see what you mean. But think of it this way. A guy with a stick represents a military unit, albeit a very poorly equipped one. The fact that the symbol for a warrior is a guy with a stone axe doesn't have to mean that the unit only has stone axes. If a warrior were running around in the modern world, don't you think he would pick up some better weapons? Even a poorly equipped unit can damage or destroy a tank in the right circumstances. Think mujahedeen vs. Soviets.

4) I agree with you on naval units tho. A galley vs. a sub?!? Come on. The galley should be instantly destroyed. They would never know what hit them. Literally. For that matter, the same should be true of a frigate vs. a battleship or destroyer. I mean really - an 18th century frigate wouldn't even get within range of a modern destroyer before being blown out of the water.

	08-01-2002 08:18									#70
	Support Apolyton, buy Galactic Civilizations

The Manhattan Project should be a Small Wonder. It's a bit silly that as soon one Civ builds it, everyone else can make nuclear weapons. This is highly classified information and requires very specialized facilities, so each Civ should have to develop them on their own. After all, the technology has been around for quite awhile now, but only a handful of nations so far have nuclear capability. I realize this might unbalance the game, but that could probably be corrected by introducing the Atrocity function, as found in Alpha Centauri. Once a Civ uses a nuke, it might find itself at war with all the rest, and/or suffer instant war weariness with it's citizens, regardless of government type.

	08-01-2002 09:20									#71
	Increase the size of your Attachments

quote: The Manhattan Project should be a Small Wonder. It's a bit silly that as soon one Civ builds it, everyone else can make nuclear weapons. This is highly classified information and requires very specialized facilities, so each Civ should have to develop them on their own. After all, the technology has been around for quite awhile now, but only a handful of nations so far have nuclear capability. I realize this might unbalance the game, but that could probably be corrected by introducing the Atrocity function, as found in Alpha Centauri. Once a Civ uses a nuke, it might find itself at war with all the rest, and/or suffer instant war weariness with it's citizens, regardless of government type.

I totally agree with you.

	08-01-2002 16:23									#72
	Re: Re: Re: MAKE REAL ALLIES!!! Support Apolyton, buy Galactic Civilizations: Deluxe Edition

quote: Originally posted by Vivisector HEY! I got CTP2 but haven't really played it. I noticed the forum is dead. How do you customize it - plz tell me! Have you got a script or something I could see?

See on http://apolyton.net/ctp2/modification

Tons of information about how to modify CTP2.

See related forum, too.

	08-01-2002 19:27									#73
	Let Improvements provide resources Inflate your Upload Space

To decrease the dependence on some of the strategic resources, certain city improvements should be able to provide them. Making that an option in the editor would be enough, but one can always hope for synthetic fuel and rubber plants in the actual game.

	08-01-2002 23:53									#74
	General Ideas Support Apolyton, buy GURPS/ Alpha Centauri

Kudos to those organizing this thread!

A few thoughts on the Trade Advisor:

Possible bug: When I offer a Technology for trade and ask what the civ will give in return, they often offer a great deal. However, when I remove one of the items that they're offering, the deal suddenly becomes insulting.

The Trade Advisor is currently omniscient... he always knows the exact point at which a deal becomes acceptable. There should be a point at which he says "This deal may be acceptable", where you can risk trying to make the deal... with the possible consequence being that if the civ doesn't accept your offer, their asking price goes up a bit.

Railroad Movement

It would be nice to have the option to disable unlimited railroad movement in favor of a small movement cost (1/10th?). Otherwise, the railroad really reduces the need for strategic unit-placement and makes defense against attack too easy.

Errata

I'd like to second the request for a pop-up warning of civil disorder before it happens.

I'd also like to second the request for a "balloon" indicator for workers that tell you how long they will take to finish their current project. Also, an option to "activate automated worker after completion of current project" would be much appreciated.

ollie

Last edited by bloodysmurf on 09-01-2002 at 00:04

	09-01-2002 01:52									#75
	Re: peaceful leaders Support Apolyton buy from Amazon

quote: Originally posted by pchang Did anyone mention something about a peaceful way to generate great leaders? If not, then I'm asking for it.

Perhaps if a city size 7 or higher converts culturally it should spawn a great leader.

	09-01-2002 02:04									#76
	Re: General Idea: Railroads granting shared food storages Get a bigger avatar today!

quote: Originally posted by Optimizer If Farmlands are brought back from Civ 2 to take over the food bonus of Railroads, the Railroads could benefit a civ's food supply in a more logical way: Cities connected by Railroads should have a shared, regional food storage. When the storage is filled, the happiest city would grow (if it is allowed). This adds *realism, (Railroads transport food to where it is needed; they do not produce it.) *strategy (You can now specialize your cities on food, industry or something else.) *and beauty. (The landscape wouldn't be filled by rail.) This would also decrease micromanagement in the late game.

This is a truly awesome idea. I tip my hat to you, Optimizer!

	09-01-2002 02:44									#77
	Support Apolyton buy from Amazon

Having read this entire thread to this point, I add...

There are MANY great ideas here. I can hardly wait for a revved-up editor so we can see a lot of these ideas come to life.

As far as non-editor, FIRAXIS-please-change items I think we must demand:

- Stacked movement of units
- Manhattan Wonder made a minor wonder
- Change of the Longevity wonder
- Ability of bomber units to sink ships
- Culturally flipped cities no longer eliminate opposing troops (actually I think that some defection of troops should occur based on hit points: conscripts 90% chance of defection, regulars 50%, vets 20%, elite 10%, armies 0% and they expel the rest of them similarly to the way you get expelled after being warned - unceremoniously dumped outside the city border.)
- An incredibly powerful editor (like we were promised )

Civ2 is a much better game today than it was a year after it was introduced. It's way too early to give up on Civ3. This is a great game and if we're allowed to really modify it like we obviously want to, we should be able to make (almost) all these wishes come true. We're counting on you, FIRAXIS.

	09-01-2002 03:55									#78
	Re: Re: Re: MAKE REAL ALLIES!!! Support Apolyton, buy Civilization: The Boardgame

quote: Originally posted by Vivisector HEY! I got CTP2 but haven't really played it. I noticed the forum is dead. How do you customize it - plz tell me! Have you got a script or something I could see?

Get the mod pack and follow the directions. CTP2 is a really great game if you mod the dodgy AI. I wish Civ 3 had many of the features CTP2 has...

	09-01-2002 03:58									#79
	Browse Apolyton AD-FREE

I'd like to see a cap on the number of units that can fit on one tile at one time. Right now you can have so many units in one city that it totally unbalances the game. The unit limit from Civ 2 should be restored.

	09-01-2002 18:55									#80
	Get a bigger avatar today!

I want to sink ships with planes and artillary I think it was totally unfair not the allow this in the game. Also can you please get the AI to use his navy in some way

	10-01-2002 00:49									#81
	Support Apolyton, buy GURPS/ Alpha Centauri

RE: mid-late game lack of things to build:

Allow multiples of the same improvements but with diminishing returns...i.e. 2nd temple costs 2x gives .5 culture/turn, .5 happy faces. Gives something to build instead of forcing war or nothing. Otherwise, attach more different improvements with existing techs. I like the idea of diminishing returns though, to me this is the essence of decision-making, weighing tradeoffs... ...Less likely to unbalance things?I just hate not having anything to build. Too little is bad, too much is ???

This might be more of a stretch, but the AI needs to be more variable so that the stuff that works in one game won't work in all or with all of the opponent civs. As it stands, the tech trading thing is an exploit since the AI will essentially trade itself into obscurity. And all of them do it all of the time. What I suggest is this. Along with having some variability in each of the priorities that the AI uses (with some civ-specific tendencies thrown in), keep a file that keeps track of what is succesful and what is not, sort of a natural selection. The intrinsic amount of variability from ideal can be a function of the number of civs on the map and the evolution should continue until the player 'resets' the AI. I may be in left field here, but according to what I got from Soren's chat, this could be in line with the priorities scheme they used to make the AI move. Is it implementable? Someone tell me that...

-mm

	10-01-2002 01:49									#82
	Support Apolyton, buy Call to Power 2

That just sounds too complicated. But here's an idea we can all enjoy:

Allow foreign workers to assimilate!

On my latest Marla Earth game, I've got more Indian, Babylonian, Egyptian and Persian Workers than my own Germans. They're so slow...

If city inhabitants have a chance to "convert" to Germans, then let these workers convert, too.

	10-01-2002 02:08									#83
	Re: Desires For Future Civ3 Patches/Expansions Support Apolyton or Terrorists Win

I totally agree with this part. Upon buying the game over Christmas, I spent hours building up my civilisation. After declaring war upon France I sent forth my troops and commenced bloody murder upon said civilization. After around 30 or 40 turns France decided that they wished peace as my men were decimating their territory. My troops return home, and returning through an area that wasnt prime city building land, found that the Aztecs had set up a network of cities...

Further movement showed that the aztecs had done this around 1/3 of my coast, cutting off my territory and reducing my resource input. Scouts were sent out to uncover the situation with other fledgling colonies upon my continent, within a turn or two of my scouts arriving close to my coolonies i found that they were surrounded by enemy cities.

In the end after many hours of trying to culturally conquer them, i had to resort in all out warfare, which ended with 3 civilizations reduced to the bare minimum, (mine included)

After starting a new game I decided to try what the Ai had done to me.... impossible unless i wished to declare war, but the AI had done this to me on several occaisions without starting war!

The only way is to build the city upon the very edge of an enemy border, which is risky enough if the city does not receive adequate defence or decides to switch allegiances.

In any case a later patch to fix this problem would make my life a lot happier

[2-4-17****) The AI needs to respect other Civ’s borders more, especially human players,; not to mention the AI needs not to plop a city in the middle of your empire


*************


Has anyone found a map/scenario editor that I can use to create senario maps, eg The foght for American Independance. Perhaps Firaxis can endorse a map editor than has this feature, and help the programmer to develop the editor.

Thanx

Last edited by Kev.jigy on 10-01-2002 at 21:58

	10-01-2002 03:20									#84
	Support Apolyton, buy Galactic Civilizations: Deluxe Edition

New Suggestions


Interface and Unit Commands
10-12-141 Instead of poping up a separate window/message about a wonder being building, instead at the end of the turn pop-up one single window/message about all the various wonders that have been started and by whom.
10-12-142 In accord with the previous suggstion, perhaps the city completion and build orders could be incorperated into a single window/message that you can view at one time and change at one time at the beginning of your turn (end of the AI's turn)
10-12-143 Have an option to pop-up ALL message at the end of the AI's turn (and the beginning of yours). That way you can leave the computer while the AI takes its turn
10-12-144 Include more info in the diplomacy contact screen. Currently it only shows the name of the Civ. Include beside it their current attitude toward you, perhaps their color, and any other useful information. This would help if Firaxis does not to decide to fix the foreign minister screen for more than 8 civs.


Suggestion to do some previously mentioned points differently

AI
2-8-21**) The AI needs to build more fortresses along its borders and place units inside them. This will prevent from the AI aimlessly wondering around, which in turn will speed up the turn of the AI.
The AI should be taught to just simply fortify or skip the turn instead of patrol like a human does.

I would like to suggest this point as extrememely vital(*****):
4-8-33****) When a city revolts all units should not be lost mysteriously; instead a fight should be put up by the units.
I don't know the solution to this problem, but it needs to be fixed. This should apply to what happens during a cultural revolt. I don't see how many of these cities could overthrow obviosly superior firepower.

7-9-54$) Allow for trading of military units with other Civs.
I think this is quite realistic and should be included.

7-11-56**) Also include a Mutual Protection Pact that can be targeted towards just one Civ, instead of just a MPP that is against all Civs.
This would be quite helpful. I would raise the ranking.

	10-01-2002 03:46									#85
	A few questions/comments... Full PM-box? Change here!

(1) It would be nice to have a "last updated" note on the list

(2) Does anyone know whether Firaxis is taking these suggestions into consideration? Has there been any indication that they are indeed working on another patch?

(3) Has anyone else encountered the problem with the Trade advisor that I mentioned in my earlier post (a few above this one)?

Thanks,
Ollie

	10-01-2002 05:22									#86
	Lose 30 kilos (of popups)

The rivers running through the Deserts all have flood plains, which provides some sort of food source. So why can't rivers running through the Plains not have Grassland along it's banks?

	10-01-2002 07:42									#87
	Bring back public works! Suffering from ads?

As many people have commented about the tediousness of workers taking the fun out of the game, I would like to see the possiblity of the public works system implemented in some form. Perhaps one of the following ideas could be used.

a) An option when generating a new game to use public works instead of workers

b) Certain government types would perhaps use the public works system instead of workers, reflecting different policy-making.

	10-01-2002 21:32									#88
	Remove this text

This is quite a monster thread so i haven't had time top read the whole thing so forgive me if i'm duplicating here, but two features i'd really like to see here are:

Partizans

I really miss Partizans, without them there is no real model of civil war in the game, (and not just communist Partizans this time either, but any civ with Nationalism- a sense of national identity) there's no way of modelling Contra's or the Viet Cong type situations, sure resistance is fine but they take no actual military action, they don't break transport networks for instance- which would be particularly challenging in a game where strategic and luxury rescources are so important. In fact if thats all they did- that and hide out in mountains and jungles defending themselves and sabotaging improvements that'd be just great.

Torpedo Bombers

I've mentioned these before but in case i wasn't heard by significant ears i'll say it again Torpedo Bombers!. air units that can actually sink ships would be great- make em weak so you need a few of em to sink each carrier- but how else can things like the battle of Midway get recreated without TBombers! ya can't have a self-respecting war with another significant power withoput torpedo bombers, thats what i recon. The AI's tactical skills seem adequate to wield this weapon and have it wielded against in my opinion. Also it would make naval battles even more tactically exciting and challenging.

thanks for listening.

	10-01-2002 23:27									#89
	Support Apolyton, buy GURPS/ Alpha Centauri

...other than the EXtremely important need for landmarks in the game....

... the editor for Units would benefit from having a checkbox for
1) causes war weariness if destroyed in its civilization
2) causes war weariness if destroyed in attackers civilization

This would be darn helpful in scenarios cuz:

When a leader dies on the battlefield, that civilization needs a strong hit of war weariness.

If a "Refugee" unit or a "Peacekeeper" unit is killed by my civ, then my civ should feel increased war weariness.

Okay, the real reason I want this feature is because I want to have a "Satyagrahi" unit. This unit would not attack, but could be used as a human shield by nations not wanting to go to war. If killed, the attacking civ gets a hit in the war weariness department.

It would of course be part of a scenario involving India's independence, where non-violent conflict carried the day. But the unit would come in handy for other civs too. OBTW, Gandhi as a military leader....that's pretty silly. I know Firaxis wanted familiar faces... but that's absurd. Better they should have included Oz as a civ and flying monkeys as the UU...that would happen before Gandhi would lead an army in war.

Okay....back to the topic... need that effect on war weariness... please.

	11-01-2002 01:35									#90
	What are the chances? Support Apolyton, buy GURPS/ Alpha Centauri

Hello everyone,

I really do like this game, but reading these posts really makes me think what
a great great great game this could be. Many of the suggestions here I agree with. My question, What is the chance that these will be implimented(sp) into a patch? I hope (Firaxis, Infogrames) sees these requests and puts them in a future patch. Whats the chances and what if any has the best chance of going in it?

Thanks for your time,

Bilas