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Bereta_Eder
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Gianni, is one of your parents Italian?
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Bereta_Eder
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who cares about GDP when in other countries than Cuba it is concentrated in the hands of the few rich when other people are starving? Please!
Sink to new lows? That's nothing compared to what you have sunk! THE terrorist, THE murderer. Bin Laden is a kid compared to the likes of you! And his cause is the same as yours. So why should I tell you apart?
Totallity is your ideal, no mine.
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Bereta_Eder
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It is natural when you have a rich country right next door. This doesn't change the fact that life there for the people who stay behind is way better than any other petty semi-dictatoric US supported latin american regime. (despite the american economic war against Cuba).
Argentina wasn't so lucky as Cuba, Chile either, Cambodia, etc etc
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Ramo
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Austin, Texas, USA
Oct 1999
time: 23:15
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To be fair, the Argentine gov't really had very little choice - devalue the peso or default on the loan, neither of which is a very good option. But what is unacceptable is the "State of Siege" bullshit!   I certainly am not about to shed any tears for de la Rua.
quote:
GDP per capita for Latin AMerica:
Cuba: $1700
Mexico $9100
Chile: $13000
Brazil: $6,500
Colombia: $6,200
Uruguay: $9,300
Just to show you how clueless you are. |
That's not fair. The GDP/capita is definitely not an accurate measurement in determining quality of life for a country like Cuba, considering the exceptional health care and education services the Cuban state provides, relative to the rest of Latin America.
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They failed to respect the rule of law in not using the constitutional methods for changing government. |
The law is flawed when it allows for the gov't to deny civil liberties to the people; therefore no respect for this law, and the person who enacted this measure, is warranted.
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Argentina is a democracy, |
Which would be why the state of siege was declared (ending freedom of speech, assembly, etc.)? 
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and the people who have destabalized it are people anrgy over the government not putting forth tariffs. |
Uhh... no.  Try the IMF's austerity measures which would bankrupt many households and firms.
Last edited by Ramo on 21-12-2001 at 13:44
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cpp
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Norway
Jul 2000
time: 06:15
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The "Webster's Encyclopedic Unabridged Dictionary of the English Language" gives this definition
Second World
1. The world's industrialized nations other than the US and the USSR.
2. The communist and socialist nations of the world.
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Dr. Nick
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Mola mazo!
Oct 2000
time: 01:15
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Black Dragon:
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The Argentine people are already the loser in what has happened. They continue a prcedent for government by thuggery. They failed to respect the rule of law in not using the constitutional methods for changing government. |
Excuse me, this started because De La Rua instated martial law (estado de sitio) and people were scared of the military. Before the military stepped out of the barracks, the people took to the street, demanding the resignation of De La Rua for the change in power to take place. There's precedent of this, in 1962 Frondizi was deposed by the Senate when the military had an attempted coup. The President of the Chamber of Senators was handed power and the military were forced back into the barracks. In order to prevent the military abusing the state of siege and to prevent the military from staging a coup, the people took to the streets precisely so that the constitutional methods would be enacted in a smooth change of power and economic model.
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This does not bode well, but then people tend to get the governments they deserve |
At least we have a real democracy where the PEOPLE choose the president, not some silly college of representatives 
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What has happened was the fairly and democratically elected president has been made to resign practically by force. This is a black day for democracy in Latin America |
What HAS happened is that a fairly and democratically elected president has been made to resign by the people who chose him. Rousseau's Social Contract in action. When the people get fed up with the leadership, a new leadership is demanded. Simple. It's AS democratic the way he was pushed out as the way he was elected.
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"they have a name for the likes of you Shi: "americans, murderers of peoples". Get used to it. It is chanted from Latin America to Siberia." |
Actually, after the "carnal relations" by Di Tella, and the constant uncovering of CIA papers with regards to Plan Condor, nobody here likes the Americans.
Giannie:
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Democracy doesnīt function here... it turns klepocratic. Socialist pig dogs steal money by bailing out loans. It wasnīt the convertibility, it wasnīt Cavallo, it wasnīt De La Rua, it was crooks that De La Rua surrounded himself by. It was crooks in the congress. The Peronists are taking advantage of this situation. |
All politicians are crooks here, Cavallo, De La Rua, they are all a bunch of crooks and idiots, but there's nothing else to choose from.
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Note: Do a search on Argentina's History. From 1939-1975 there were over 30 coup attempts. |
1930, 1943, 1955, 1962, 1966, 1976, three or four during Alfonsin's period... Carini exaggerating and pulling numbers out his arse again no wonder. 
Ramo:
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To be fair, the Argentine gov't really had very little choice - devalue the peso or default on the loan, neither of which is a very good option. But what is unacceptable is the "State of Siege" bullshit! I certainly am not about to shed any tears for de la Rua. |
This is true for the past year, but when Menem had the options of doing something, he did nothing. The reason why Argentina lasted this long (I believe) is because after the privatisation craze, the money collected was used to pay off debt. Default has been a demand of the IMF for a while already as Cavallo was paying the debt out of the reserve.
Now, the strongest change of policy is to change the entire economy into pesos and devalue. I hope there are enough pesos and they don't start printing bills like crazy and trigger off a mess like in 1988.
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Which would be why the state of siege was declared (ending freedom of speech, assembly, etc.)? |
State of siege is a constitutional recourse to maintain order, unfortunately. Well, it sure delays military action at least. In any case, this is what the people went berserk about.
red_jon:
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As for Argentina, I wouldn't call any country where they execute homosexuals democratic (well, they aren't a Liberal Democracy). Liberal Democracies protect minorities, they aren't a tyranny of the majority |
WTF??? BTW, the military is NOT in control. Acephaly stands, anarchy prevails. But there are no more disturbances, the country is kind of running itself on the autopilot at the moment, although the Head of the Cabinet (promoted to Minister of Economy) is still in the Casa Rosada running the place.
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Dr. Nick
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Mola mazo!
Oct 2000
time: 01:15
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My own personal opinion on the whole situation:
The current political class needs to be eliminated from the ballots and promote the renewal of the leading groups. People want young minds, as it were, people not in the corruption cycle.
As I see it, Giancarlo's cries of "military coup! military coup!" stand worthless. The military hasn't even showed its face, not even Gendarmeria. The truth is that, after abolishing conscription, there won't be a coup, simply because the army is now a club for gentlemen and they have no one to do their dirty work like they had conscripts in all the previous coups. Secondly, after the people's response to the government yesterday, the military knows well enough that a coup would only make the people angrier and more virulent and may well trigger a real armed revolution against the government, and the lower ranks of the army would still be closer to the revolutionaries than their superior officers much like in 1917.
This is the Argentine people making their power as a society heard so that the government doesn't forget that they're working for the people and not themselves.
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21-12-2001 05:53
(despite a crippling american embargo if I recall...)
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