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Sovereign
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Ack! I didn't realize you had your timeline, HistoryGuy! I'll go back to my timeline, modify it so that the Morganites stumbled across University's Zak system in 2549 as per your timeline, and developed trade and alliances thereafter. How's that?
Mellian, I thought the galaxy itself is 100,000 light years across, right? so if you measure the distance from Alpha Centauri or Sol to the galatic core (the white blob in the north part of Sprayber's map) it's roughly the same distance to University's 3 systems. In addition, University's 3 systems are near the edge of the galaxy, making it logically, 50,000 light years from galatic core (100,000 light year diameter divided by two means radius). If you say the human sphere is 200 light years then the galaxy would only be 1,000 to 5,000 light years across, not the real 100,000 light year diameter.
I was thinking about transwarp as the future version of FTL. Suffice it to say that the Fraal probably has it, and with constant refinements to the FTL drives, eventually Transwarp would be discovered. I'd give it maybe 100 - 200 years from the story timeline. I'm not saying University has Transwarp, but I think its likely they would have Transwarp in a few centuries. I was just hinting at the possibility, nothing more. Humans in the story do encounter advanced technologies that they may understand the effects, but unable to activate, use, or develop them for centuries. Take the Scions for example. Or humans understanding Fraal's technology superiority, but unable to duplicate or develop Fraal technology until maybe M.Y. 1,000,000 or something like that.
Kass, good idea. How about trade relations at first, then maybe improve relationships to "good friends"? Think of what the University could offer to Earth... Univ's advanced building technologies and terraforming for Mars, Venus, and Pluto, etc.
Hrmm, I can't think of anything else right now. Hopefully these explanations will be sufficient enough so I can start my story!!!!  
Last edited by Sovereign on 21-02-2002 at 05:43
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Sovereign
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True Sprayber. I have a Vendetta on the Believers, and I'd like to introduce an interesting element to the story by Univ being stuck between two sides, Hive Alliance (Hive, Bree, Terrans), and the Morgan Alliance (Morgans, Spartans, and Drones). Align with old friends and deepen old hatred from old foes, or reject old friends and gain trust of former foes...
Univ would be stuck between a rock and a hard place, having to decide which side to join. The Democratic societies of Morgan, Drones, and Sparta... or the police states of Hive, Terrans, and Bree. University feels a strong pull towards Earth, their homeland, and their old alliance with the Hive during Univ's struggles on Chiron. But the University is a democracy, and is supposed to join the democratic states yet doesn't know what Alliance Group to join. This would make for an interesting political situation, and the Univ has technology that both sides would be interested in, etc. Just letting you guys know where I'm coming from.
What do you think of these dynamics?
Last edited by Sovereign on 21-02-2002 at 06:38
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Mellian
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Grrrrrrrrrr, just when i tried making quick replies about somethings before it is to late, Apolyton is down 
Sovereign
I read your refine timeline, but there is still some conflict with the main timeline. I know it is a pain, but University is involved in some important events like the FTL. And just because Univ discovered FTL means you can make the theory or details of how it works or even add to it.
I suggest you drop the Side-Warp thing... it is creative, but it won't exactly work in BAC. Better to have humanity close together within a 50-100ly radius of Sol and to keep FTL speeds slow... makes space seem a lot larger that way and more fun.
The Official FTL concept we are using is "Quantum Tunneling" you can say, but better to simply call it FTL then give some name. With that theory, no one can detect incoming ships....well, no Human faction anyway and some of the aliens... only the Fraal and so on can detect incoming ships... Will go more into details in the Datalinks thread. To get faster speeds in FTL, it depends on the power source, how you enter FTL speed, and so on. FTL Drives can be refined to the point of being really advance.... but BAC sake, no super speed FTLs. Will allow Univ have FTL speeds equal to the Protectorate.... 15ly/day in average. So no alternate dimension like hyperspace or your side-space please....
Other timeline conflicts are...
University cannot invent FTL after they leave Chiron...else the other factions wouldn't get the FTL technology like the Main timeline suggests. Better that University leaves chiron after the invention of FTL... where Data Angels can acquire the basic specs of the FTL drive and then release throughout Chiron's Datalink Networks....then factions finding out and forcing University to give the full technology. If University moves their headquarters into orbit, then it would make easy for the other factions to force University Surface-to-Space Missiles would exist then as well as various armed Orbital Space Crafts.
Drop the Great Human War thing.... can say Univ provided techs to Hive for their survival, but don't write the entire past history...especially when concerning the other factions. Keep it vague.
The factions that left Chiron generally do in the 2400s... so if Univ sent a ship to visit Chiron in the 2500s....then more then the Hive would have left.... Generally leaving the Peacekeepers to pretty much rule the world, with the Pirates controlling the Seas....and remaining few holdings of Data Angels (majority of faction conquere by aliens and human factions didn't exactly gave their bases back after liberating them of aliens), Cult of Planet, Gaians and some Morganites maybe.
So be carefully not towrite history stuff for the other factions and be aware of the Main events as well.
Before you came, the basic description for University is:
they didn't control many systems, does have contact with neighbouring factions in space, but not very active diplomaticly. They keep to themselves and discourage others from entering their territory, even for tourism. Simple trade dealing with Morganites, Peacekeepers, and Drones... maybe others.
Generally quiet. So your idea of University would fit easily from the basic desc i gave....but better to keep Univ in the core of human space thought. Can have Univ to start being active into diplomacy after keeping to themselves for so long. Also be aware that the Hive is secretive and prefer not attracting attention to themselves.....so making the Hive attack on Univ space a bit odd and screaming for attention, which i think Hive doesn't want.... especially in the past century.
-LMP
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Mellian
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quote:
Originally posted by Sprayber
Sovereign: You may want to review the current state of Inerstellar politics.  The Univeristy may not be able to be friends with everyone.
Morgan and the Terrans are at war
Sparta and the Hive have extremely cold relations so far
Spartans will go to war with the Terrans if or when they attack Morgan in his territory
Drones mostly support Morgan and the Spartans but can afford to stay outside of conflict at the moment.
The Pks are perhaps for the first time in history minding their own business
The Believers may end up trying to play both sides.
The Protectorate will be attacked by everyone most likely.  |
About the Peacekeepers....... rather have them as one of big human factions in Human space, but in the past bit, they are oddly keeping to themselves. They also have a strong Military, just mainly use as defence, escort and hunting down annoying Pirate clans like the Larionov, Blood Eagles, and so on. So don't make any plans into trying to invade the Peacekeepers now Hopefully Guardian can come and take them over...and hopefully when the Great Human Stellar War (has someone a better name?) really starts up. They are Democratic, but not as Bureaucratic as before....now that they control stellar nation where crummy Bureaucracy will simply cause more problems then it is worth. Can say the (Peacekeeper) Commonwealth (they need better name, but other factions still call them Peacekeepers) is the best Stellar Nation to live in. Peaceful paradise, of course not perfect, but still They are into Diplomacy and have Embassies all over the place, but they are quiet and, for first time in history, don't interfere. Maybe the next election (when Guardian or someone else takes the Peacekeepers), will get a pro-active in your face Leader
-LMP
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Mellian
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quote:
Mellian, I thought the galaxy itself is 100,000 light years across, right? so if you measure the distance from Alpha Centauri or Sol to the galatic core (the white blob in the north part of Sprayber's map) it's roughly the same distance to University's 3 systems. In addition, University's 3 systems are near the edge of the galaxy, making it logically, 50,000 light years from galatic core (100,000 light year diameter divided by two means radius). If you say the human sphere is 200 light years then the galaxy would only be 1,000 to 5,000 light years across, not the real 100,000 light year diameter.
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Sovereign, suggesttion.. pay attention to all of the posts in this thread.... atleast all the ones specific to you and all posts i ever write If you go back a page, you will see my point that the official map is mest up.. especially having the Galactic core there which doesn't make sense at all, like you pointed out. SO, simply ignore the Galactic core thing Please. Sprayber said he will eventually fix up the map. A lot of those stars around Sol is about the real positions of the stars from Sol in real life...if you look top down of course. If we have a human sphere of 2000ly, would you not think that we would of made FTL speeds a lot faster, and factions controlling more territory?
quote:
I was thinking about transwarp as the future version of FTL. Suffice it to say that the Fraal probably has it, and with constant refinements to the FTL drives, eventually Transwarp would be discovered. I'd give it maybe 100 - 200 years from the story timeline. I'm not saying University has Transwarp, but I think its likely they would have Transwarp in a few centuries. I was just hinting at the possibility, nothing more. Humans in the story do encounter advanced technologies that they may understand the effects, but unable to activate, use, or develop them for centuries. Take the Scions for example. Or humans understanding Fraal's technology superiority, but unable to duplicate or develop Fraal technology until maybe M.Y. 1,000,000 or something like that.
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Yes, but we don't want to make BAC like Startrek, where there is so many forms of FTL travel. BAC official form of FTL travel is "Quantum Tunneling" and all FTL techs resolve around that. And transwarp will simply unbalance BAC. so no Transwarp. Fraal of course may have a better FTL, but it still resolves around the Quantum Tunneling idea. ANyway, just drop the side-space thing and sling shotting University Colonials 2000ly away...... basic FTL at the time period is good enough for close distant colonization. Scions know how to replicate Biometal, but still haven't figure out how Biometal was created in the first place. Biometal regenerates more of itself, which was notice before...but a slow process. They just learn how to speed up the process in refinaries, using up energy, providing them unlimited Biometal without needing to go off Mining. Scions still advance.
quote:
Kass, good idea. How about trade relations at first, then maybe improve relationships to "good friends"? Think of what the University could offer to Earth... Univ's advanced building technologies and terraforming for Mars, Venus, and Pluto, etc.
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Realize that there as been a distrust between the CHiron factions and the Terrans... and Sol as it own various factions within the Terran Alliance. Can have trade between Univ and some Terran factions, but better off to stay away from advance techs. If University does provide the Terrans advance techs, then the other Factions will not like Univ to much.... So if university wants to stay neutral, better limit the trading with the Terrans.
Also note, one of University's FTL prototypes visited Sol, but didn't make contact or notice the human activity in the system, and warp out. Gaians visited Sol later on and became the first faction to make Official Contact with Terrans.... but Gaians left with an bad impression as Earth Coalition Ambassador who spoke to them said something on the line that Chiron is a colony belonging to Earth or something like that........ That created the bad feelings between the Chironians and Terrans.
-LMP
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History Guy
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Reads too many books...
Oct 2001
time: 23:17
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OK, here we are. Apolyton seems to have been down last night.
Sovereign, instead of a US Flag with superimposed University symbol, how's about a Russian flag with University symbol. I highly doubt that the Zakharov dynasty, being of Russian descent, would put the US flag up over the Russian one.
Silence, as soon as I get my post put up later today start work on the post on the attack on Capella. I plan a rather good sized piece on Capella. First we'll have the fleet assaulting with a post about the Soldiers of God fleet attacking and bombarding, and then my post about Admiral Vallachi's simualtenous assault. And then after we shall have the conquest of the capital of Capella's largest planet, with Soldier of God attacks and Morganite attacks. How's that sound, Silence and Kassiopeia?
Kassiopeia, how many men are garrisoning Capella's largest planet? Who is the colonial magistrate, general-in-chief, etc.? How many ships shall we have to destroy?
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Mellian
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quote:
Univ would be stuck between a rock and a hard place, having to decide which side to join. The Democratic societies of Morgan, Drones, and Sparta... or the police states of Hive, Terrans, and Bree. University feels a strong pull towards Earth, their homeland, and their old alliance with the Hive during Univ's struggles on Chiron. But the University is a democracy, and is supposed to join the democratic states yet doesn't know what Alliance Group to join. This would make for an interesting political situation, and the Univ has technology that both sides would be interested in, etc. Just letting you guys know where I'm coming from.
What do you think of these dynamics? |
Sovereign....
Terran Alliance is an alliance of various Human factions in Sol like the Earth Coalition (biggest member), Mars Combine (second biggest), Venus, InEn, Belters, Scions and now Titan. They all have seperate agendas and so on (Mars and Venus is quiet. Belters lack a real government to make much difference. Scions keep to themselves, but sort of forced to work with the TAF and so on). Another faction of TA is the Terran Alliance Fleet, which is considere a seperate entity within TA, but not a member. The TAF is Terran Alliance's official military force. Once the Terran Council officially declares war, TAF will have a lot of control over the member's militaries and security, and be able to properlly defend Sol the way they wanted to, which annoying members like the Coalition and InEn politicly prevented. So be careful when concerning the Terrans.... Terran Alliance is generally Democratic, where each Member nation/faction have equal amount of votes in the Terran Council. will get into details later...unless Kass already did concerning the Terran Council somewhere. Each member as different kinds of Governments or lack of...and how their societies is runned. Note, Mars nearly completed terraforming, looks more like Earth then the Mars today in real life.
ANyway, Terran Alliance isn't allied with the Hives and so on, just some Terran factions like Titan and Earth Coalition making secret deals
the Spartans isn't a democracy I don't think the Morganites is either, as they are simply a Big Stellar Corporate Nation.... InEn the same way, but way smaller in comparison to the Morganites. terrans.
So better don't get the idea that it is a Democracy vs Dictorship/Police State struggle
-LMP
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Mellian
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quote:
Originally posted by Sovereign
Oh, I forgot to reply to FC's question... I think University of Planet should change its name to the United States of University to reflect its democratic government, and American values of freedom, research, and superior technology.
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umm, don't want to be picky or want to get into real life political argument, but not to fond of United States, especially lately..... University is way different from todays United States, even the past.... United States is a Republic (two-party goverment), not a true Democracy. Freedom with Price tag on it. USA maybe the most advance in the world, but alot of their technologies wasn't invented or develop by Americans USA is into acquiring various scientists and so on from other countries.... USA wouldn't be on the Moon in the 60s if it wasn't for NASA hiring various Canadians.... USA wouldn't be first to have the Atom Bomb if wasn't for Einstein, who wasn't an American, and etc...... USA is also into having a big arse military like the Spartans, where both USA and Spartans believe the right for everybody to have a gun ....which is why USA is a gun fanatic country. USA in my eyes isn't to great lately too, them going off taking out a Country without officially declaring war by using the War against Terrorism as an excuse and so on. So USA and University is far from similar 
One thing, how is University a democracy if they have the same leader for so long, hmm?  won't accept voted for life Or people love him so much that he keep being voted in as an excuse....
quote:
I've been thinking... maybe I should use the old University symbol, but make it a set of 3, like the BioHazard warning pic, and superimpose it on the USA flag, replacing the stars with the Univ symbol in the blue part of the flag (the three sets of semicircles represent the 3 Univ systems).... I have another idea but I'll need a day or two to design it in photoshop. Then you guys can vote on which one looks best. How does that sound? |
PLEASE, don't make University look like USA, ahhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh  
better to stay away from real life stuff in BAC, else i will get th Pirates and TAF to pounce on University. "nothing personal, just don't like you people impersanating the old nation of USA"
PS: yes i am a bit anti-USA, but only Bush and the US government, not the people... and don't try arguing it here please, got into so many in the past... and been told off to the point where various americans were bashing me and canada for 40 minutes straight in a chat room, after posting a quotation from Einstein............. *ducks and hides*
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Mellian
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quote:
Silence, as soon as I get my post put up later today start work on the post on the attack on Capella. I plan a rather good sized piece on Capella. First we'll have the fleet assaulting with a post about the Soldiers of God fleet attacking and bombarding, and then my post about Admiral Vallachi's simualtenous assault. And then after we shall have the conquest of the capital of Capella's largest planet, with Soldier of God attacks and Morganite attacks. How's that sound, Silence and Kassiopeia?
Kassiopeia, how many men are garrisoning Capella's largest planet? Who is the colonial magistrate, general-in-chief, etc.? How many ships shall we have to destroy? |
CAPELLA DEFENCES:
TAF Fleet of three Task Forces....
the one incharge of the defence in the system is Admiral Manson.... Cocky, but not stupid. He is a good tactician (Fleet Admiral Kerensky doesn't assign stupid Admirals), but not the best in the universe of course.
One Task Force around Terra Nova and the other two slightly spread out throughout the system, Patrolling and so on.
Terra Nova will have atleast a dozen Orbital Defence Platforms like the ones around Earth in Babylon 5..... two array of Ship-Buster missiles... able to fire 50 each... and one Large Fusion Laser Cannon. (terran have Fusion lasers, but not refine enough to have smaller versions to be useful in a ship)
Do expect some Surface-to-Space Anti-Ship Missiles too
As for the TAF Ground troops:
3 TAF Marine Regiments.......comprise of Marines (think Starcraft, but power armor made out of Biometal), Combat Engineers, Combat Medics, various Hover Tank platoons (think Battlezone 2), Artillery-Assault Platoon (Siege Tank in Starcraft made of Biometal) and a single experimental Gear Unit (platoon of Gears like the ones in Heavy Gear 1&2)
Further TAF details in the Datalinks, when i can post them.....
Don't do anything from a TAF point of view... and keep the battles vague, so we can avoid details about TAF defence tactics for now..... and DON't make it a short quick battle either..... TAF will be troublesome to defea.... but shouldn't take more then a day or two to completly capture the system. Ground Battles may wage far longer...... unless you just do a complete bombarbment of the entire surface... else, even with some, there may be some pockets of TAF ground forces left........
TAF main defence strategy for the Capella invasion:
TAF Fleet will not be expecting an Invasion, but they won't be completly surprised either as they know that it is a possibility...
Admiral Manson will try to communicate to the enemy, warning them off. Will not make any deals or accept Surrender.
the two Patrolling Task Forces will try to regroup, atleast in seperate smaller groups... If they are facing a superior force, they attempt hit and runs, as well as flank attacks (BCs will use their Ion Beam Cannons when they can, which will be something the Enemy will not expect). They will try to distract the enemy fleet long enough for any Civilian/non-Combat ships to retreat and escape into FTL... and long enough for the evacuation of Civilians and non-combatants from Terra Nova. After the Civies and so on left, they will try re-group with the Task Force around Terra Nova.... during the distraction attacks, they will try to go after any Transports and Carriers. If enemy seperates in groups.... like one going straight for Terra Nova and the other to battle the two patrol task Force, then they go after the one going straight to Terra Nova or simply go straight to Terra Nova to join the First Task Force if they cannot intercept.... even if the other group of enemy goes after them...... of course, it does depend of course....
Two Task Forces, depending whats left of them after a bit, they will scatter throughout the system.
by the time the enemy force reachs Terra Nova, First Task Force and whats left of the other two will stand their grounds around the planet, facing the enemy. They will fight to the death.... they may decide towards the end to retreat elsewhere in the system and scatter...if they can of course... If there will be a big ground warfare, then the ground forces will fight to the death until towards the end if they see they can retreat elsewhere on the world and scatter.........
TAF forces will see if it is a superior force that they may not win, but they will make it hard for the enemy and fight to the death..... but unlike the Spartans, they will retreat only to scatter or whatever.......
You see, if they scatter, they will spread out and hide for a bit.... and then Engage a Guerilla Type warfare both on the world and in Space. TAF would have surveyed the entire system from the inside out. So even if the system is captured, there will be some resistance and make costly for the enemy to hold the system.
They will fight to the end via Guerilla Warfare.
Also, TAF Fleet will not be disorganized and screwed up if they lost their Admiral.... the command simply go to the next in the chain-of-command.
-LMP
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Kassiopeia
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Jyväskylä, Finland
Jul 2001
time: 07:17
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quote:
Kassiopeia, how many men are garrisoning Capella's largest planet? Who is the colonial magistrate, general-in-chief, etc.? How many ships shall we have to destroy?
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It's TAF jurisdiction, just pay close attention to LMP. Oh, he has posted it already. Fine then. 
What comes to the Colonial Magistrate, being a primarily joint installation, the Magistrate is probably someone outside the Coalition. Maybe a Combiner or a Venutian, I'll give you the liberty to get the person created. Kill him off if you want.
Now, I must grab myself in the neck and start writing! I am seriously falling behind in pace
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Sovereign
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Thanks for your feedback guys. I'll drop the hyper-warp technologies and ideas. I'll use the quantum tunneling from now on, and I'll try and envisage how it works.
Don't worry about the USA flag. I'm working on a symbol, hopefully I'll have it up by tonight and post it here. I'll drop the United States stuff, so how would University Commonwealth States (or should I say systems?)... kind of reflects Russian Commonwealth that was stated in SMAC...
I wasn't thinking straight the other day... I was tired and sleepy, was too lazy to check the galaxy size
Sometimes I get ahead of myself with ambition when I like doing something
Mellian, I'd like you to try and PM me a good fix to the timeline for the 2400's. I don't know exactly how to blend in the assasination, University's off-base in 2421 as the official timeline states, and Univ arriving in the three systems by 2430.
I might delete half of the timeline for the hell of it, since it may cause more conflicts in the future 
Relations... Well, I thought a first contact situation with a few factions would be interesting, since there's very few references to University in the story so far. I think a good fix would be a slight change in the history, because its hard to say "we're friends, we trade, we are pact brothers, etc" when there's little information about it in the stories.
Also, I'd like the University to be in an unique situation, having to choose between alliances with old friends and vendetta on old foes, or vendetta on old friends to gain the trust of old foes. That "Rock and a hard place" situation. I think it could add an interesting element to the story.
I'm not upset, but I'm trying to match my ideas into the historical timelines. Its hard to do with the timelines already established. Only if I had joined the team earlier....
Last edited by Sovereign on 21-02-2002 at 23:31
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21-02-2002 01:52
(yaay! or the despotic Spartans
(booo!)<---just kidding Sprayber!
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