19-01-2002 05:44									#31
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I don't really give a rats ass about his spelling ability, but his point still isn't valid. I guess he'd rather have a new site, one entitled "whatswrongwithCiv3.com" instead of promoting and discussing the relative merits of the program here and what can be done to make it better.

So in his happy little world, no one would ever post a dissenting opinion from his own on the great big happy World Wide Web. Awwww...what a lovely view of the perfect Spectator future.

english is my third language so untill u can speak 4 fluently I suggest u STFU.

How about 5, so take your own advice. And English wasn't my primary language. Though I'm really rusty on my Spanish at this point and haven't spoken French in years.

	19-01-2002 05:53									#32
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quote: Originally posted by SlowwHand English is far and away the most difficult language to learn. No, I have no internet site reference for you. You'll just have to take my word for the fact.

You're right there! English is a strange brew of various languages (French, Latin, Germanic, Celtic etc.) that has evolved over the centuries into something with all sorts of exceptions ("i" before "e" except after "c" etc.), and bizarre grammatical rules. I've met a number of people in my time with 3-4 languages under their belt, and I've always heard them say that English is one of the most difficult to master.

	19-01-2002 06:06									#33
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quote: Originally posted by Blackadar1 ...instead of promoting and discussing the relative merits of the program here and what can be done to make it better. ...

Oh, I see, it is actually constructive criticism, is it? Odd. With the rare exception, it looked like *****ing and moaning to me.

La Russo got it right in another thread. In response to someone posting something positive about the game s/he wrote:

quote: prepare to be called a 'fanboy'. you should have wrote something like: civ 3 sucks! where is the (deleted) editor????wtf? combat is crappolo! culture sux! AI cheats! where is fundy? phalanx killed my pyramids/modern armor/stealth bomber!!! where is elvis? etc. etc. oh also say, 'bryan adams would do this and that'. do not say 'it is only a game'. i must stop now, i started writing like bridget jones

I think s/he meant Brian Reynolds (the ex-Civ 2 designer who left Firaxis with much fanfare about how he was going to make big huge games and hasn't been heard from since), but maybe not - some people are so addled they probably think that Adams would have done a better job. After all, everything he does, he does for you.

	19-01-2002 06:11									#34
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quote: Originally posted by kimmygibler I think the only reason that they avoid doing this is because of the idea that everyone will get even more upset if they promise a date and don't come through. I don't want them to make any promises. Just say something like "check back in another month" or something. As it is, we have no idea. Wouldn't everyone here like to know what is going on. I for one could live with the disapointing setbacks without pointing blame on firaxis. It would be much better than no info whatsoever. I mean we don't know whether a patch will be out tomorrow, in a month, or even if there will be another patch.

As you said yourself, you haven't been around much lately so you've probably missed the posts made by various Firaxis members (sadly Sid hasn't been one of them). They haven't said anything definite, but they have stated that they are still working on it. For instance, they're currently trying to recruit some Beta testers, for future patches I'm presuming. After the sound thrashing they've received here recently, I don't really blame them for lying low for the time being. So all anyone can do right now is wait and see.

	19-01-2002 06:15									#35
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Cute. What some people call *****ing, others call constructive criticism.

Me, I don't like the way resources are implemented, the civs don't have enough differences, the endgame drags on forever (especially when polution becomes rampant) and the diplomatic options are especially weak when compared to SMAC. Is this *****ing or constructive criticism?

I've suggested that certain resources, especially in the late game, don't apply to pretty much ALL the units from that era. I've also suggested more fluidity in the endgame with technologies, units, etc. Or how workers should have an automation code that will allow them to search and clean up JUST polution. Perhaps a revamping of the diplomatic options would make the game more fun, allowing for shifting alliances and consensus building. Is this *****ing or constructive criticism?

Suppose that depends on your point of view, doesn't it?

	19-01-2002 06:20									#36
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quote: Originally posted by Spectator Wouldn't you be? You make a game and all ppl do here is smash it to the ground. I wouldn't come here for positive criticism, I'd look else where. It seems like if ppl here were looking to releave them selfs from their daily frustrations. I'm sure that's not what Firaxis is looking for.

Hey, you should have been here a couple of weeks ago! At least most of the critics have gotten past hurling insults at everyone who crosses their path. Even the hardliners are starting to engage in an actual discussion these days! Although I believe there's still one that's sulking on the fringes somewhere.

	19-01-2002 21:57									#37
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awwwwwwwww, bullsh1t!

	19-01-2002 22:15									#38
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quote: Originally posted by SlowwHand awwwwwwwww, bullsh1t!

How enlightening! Did you think that up all by yourself?

	21-01-2002 21:13									#39
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Thank you all for your support!

nd by the way, no offence but I find that french is the most complicated language to learn, but you know, with today technology on the net, I have no excuse!!LOL

Echinda, thank you!

	21-01-2002 21:17									#40
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quote: Originally posted by Willem How enlightening! Did you think that up all by yourself?

It was illustrating the "hardliners".
Too bad it flew right over your head.

	21-01-2002 22:21									#41
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Rather than buy a game that would frustrate and disappoint me (Civ3), I decided to wait for a game that might not frustrate and disappoint me (MOO3). I only check on the Civ3 forums every now and then out of some perverse sense of loyalty; my first 500 or so posts at Apolyton were on the Civ3 List Of Ideas (what a waste of time that was).

I'm hoping that through patches and mods, Civ3 might turn into a game that would not frustrate and disappoint me. If not, well, I'll stick to OT.

	21-01-2002 22:31									#42
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BTW, I AM looking for positive critcism and not just b1tching for the fun of it. But you know, all those flaws u ppl are talking about, I'm sure firaxis has seen them and will be fixed someday, and for the time being, I just enjoy the game how it is. And if a game gets you frustrated like that it's because, in my opinion, you have nothing to look forward too. Get a life.

Dont get me wrong, I understand positiv criticism. What I dont get is for example: THIS GAME SUCKS DEEP!!! FIRAXIS SUCKS AND THEIR MOMS TOO. DONT MAKE A GAME THIS WAY...IT SHOULD'VE BEEN THIS WAY...THIS IS NOT RIGHT...FIRAXIS ARE A BUNCH OF...and so on. I dont call that positive. I call it the "I never do anything else with my life" frustration.

Positive criticism are posts like Blakadar1's post. Oh and by the way, I wanted to answer something, a quote from Blackadar1 talking about me: I guess he'd rather have a new site, one entitled "whatswrongwithCiv3.com". No, I'd name it What do u like about Civ3 for a change.

No offence dude but you should read the first post of the thread then you would get a better idea of what I mean. And yes that was Positive Criticism and I thnak you for a polite answer, unlike others.............

Spec.

	21-01-2002 22:37									#43
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quote: Originally posted by loinburger Rather than buy a game that would frustrate and disappoint me (Civ3), I decided to wait for a game that might not frustrate and disappoint me (MOO3). I only check on the Civ3 forums every now and then out of some perverse sense of loyalty; my first 500 or so posts at Apolyton were on the Civ3 List Of Ideas (what a waste of time that was). I'm hoping that through patches and mods, Civ3 might turn into a game that would not frustrate and disappoint me. If not, well, I'll stick to OT.

NOW!!! There's a guy with positive criticism! Ya'll get the difference!

	21-01-2002 22:42									#44
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quote: Ya'll get the difference!

Is that, like, an abbreviation for Yahweh or something?

	21-01-2002 22:46									#45
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quote: Originally posted by Blackadar1 I don't really give a rats ass about his spelling ability, but his point still isn't valid. I guess he'd rather have a new site, one entitled "whatswrongwithCiv3.com"

Exactly the opposite of what I was saying.............Please read the first post before you wright an answer.....

	21-01-2002 22:48									#46
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quote: Originally posted by Libertarian Is that, like, an abbreviation for Yahweh or something?

u r so kewl....

	21-01-2002 23:19									#48
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quote: Originally posted by Libertarian

Wow man! It's like art!!
I'd call it the "I have nothing better to do with my life" frustration.


It's guys like you that make us blossom..........

	21-01-2002 23:59									#49
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quote: I'd call it the "I have nothing better to do with my life" frustration.

Wanna live my life? Pay my rent.

	22-01-2002 01:19									#50
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quote: Originally posted by Libertarian Wanna live my life? Pay my rent.

No thanks man, I already got a rent, a car, insurance and bills to pay. That'll be fine, but thanks anyway.

	22-01-2002 04:55									#51
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Wanna live my life? Pay my rent.

Hmmm...how much does a cardboard box in the back alley outside Denny's really cost?



Just couldn't resist...

	22-01-2002 13:59									#52
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I want to thank all of those who hate Civ 3 and post here.

To have posts from you shows that you're not here to trash Civ 3, but instead show that you're dissatisified with Firaxis' version of a game we all love. It's from your posts that those of us who love Civ3 benefit from most by helping a good game (in my opinion) get better.

I'm sorry if too much good-will and common sense were used in the creation of this post.

	22-01-2002 14:09									#53
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quote: Originally posted by Archaetus I'm sorry if too much good-will and common sense were used in the creation of this post.

Don't worry, we will hold it against you.

Salve

	22-01-2002 22:19									#54
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quote: Originally posted by Blackadar1 Wanna live my life? Pay my rent. Hmmm...how much does a cardboard box in the back alley outside Denny's really cost? Just couldn't resist...

	28-01-2002 20:14									#55
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quote: Originally posted by Willem As you said yourself, you haven't been around much lately so you've probably missed the posts made by various Firaxis members (sadly Sid hasn't been one of them). They haven't said anything definite, but they have stated that they are still working on it. For instance, they're currently trying to recruit some Beta testers, for future patches I'm presuming. After the sound thrashing they've received here recently, I don't really blame them for lying low for the time being. So all anyone can do right now is wait and see.

Ignorance leads to bliss, and every action demands a reaction. Firaxis was given thier chance to be polite and honourable by providing the community with progress reports and information on the various issues with Civ3, and they blew it.

Charles.

	28-01-2002 20:18									#56
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quote: Originally posted by Archaetus I want to thank all of those who hate Civ 3 and post here. To have posts from you shows that you're not here to trash Civ 3, but instead show that you're dissatisified with Firaxis' version of a game we all love. It's from your posts that those of us who love Civ3 benefit from most by helping a good game (in my opinion) get better. I'm sorry if too much good-will and common sense were used in the creation of this post.

Precisely! I'm not here to "RUIN" Civ3 or the company. I'm here to catch up on the current events, and tell it how I see it. I've spent over 100 hours on Civ3 and I'm thouroghly displeased with the final version. I just wish all the "fanboys" and ranters could understand that even hostile criticism will in the end lead to the game being fixed or improved. In short Archaetus you are absolutely correct and I'm glad that you see the real reason behind the criticism on this board. Criticism will IMPROVE the game, not ruin it.

Charles.

	28-01-2002 20:39									#57
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quote: Originally posted by Spectator BTW, I AM looking for positive critcism and not just b1tching for the fun of it. But you know, all those flaws u ppl are talking about, I'm sure firaxis has seen them and will be fixed someday, and for the time being, I just enjoy the game how it is. And if a game gets you frustrated like that it's because, in my opinion, you have nothing to look forward too. Get a life.

I don't think criticism in any form has anything to do with someone's life or the lack of. Frustration is an emotion that is triggered by disapointment and anger. And in this case you're calling people 'low lives' because they express frustration with a game product, I think you're wrong in saying so. I have a very busy and demanding life, my girlfriend gives me sh_t for spending so much time with computers in my spare time - let alone my full time job. And I am definately frustrated with how Civilization III turned out, does that mean I have no life? Not to mention the horrible treatment that this company is giving their mass of fans. But lets focus on why people are frustrated before we resort to titles and cheap name calling. I believe that the mass of frustrated critics on this board (me being one of them) stems from the lack of communication with Firaxis, and the basic and humane right to being disapointed with a game product. Neither of those reasons can be disputed because those are people's rights. And they are more than valid. So criticism is criticism. Good or bad, you have a choice read it, or don't - but don't get in the way.


Criticism = Improvement

Bi+ching about Critics = A dog chasing it's tail, zero improvement.


But I do agree with what your basically saying Spec, we all should work together and produce productive criticism with suggestions and hope. Without hope we have nothing, but you must also understand Spec that most of the hardcore fans have more than tried to reason with Firaxis, and were shut out. I must have sent them about 100 emails already, recieved 3 very vague and un-helpful replies. 3 out of 100 ? Granted they are busy people, but even the 3 replies were useless and didn't offer any helpful information.

Charles.

	28-01-2002 20:42									#58
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quote: Originally posted by Echinda Oh, I see, it is actually constructive criticism, is it? Odd. With the rare exception, it looked like *****ing and moaning to me.

Criticism is formed when someone becomes disapointed with a product, bi+ching and moaning is formed when the criticism is ignored.

Charles.

	28-01-2002 23:10									#59
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Charles,

Point well made and well taken. It all depends on how it's said and you prooved your self to be civilized in your comments (unlike some I made, I agree). We need criticism like yours, it's just when I see ppl bi+ch just for bi+ching, I say they have no lives ( I'm sorry). We seem to be on the same track.


Spec.

	28-01-2002 23:58									#60
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quote: Originally posted by Spectator Charles, Point well made and well taken. It all depends on how it's said and you prooved your self to be civilized in your comments (unlike some I made, I agree). We need criticism like yours, it's just when I see ppl bi+ch just for bi+ching, I say they have no lives ( I'm sorry). We seem to be on the same track. Spec.

I agree, there are some pretty nasty (whats the word people are using now, ah yes) Trolls in the forums. But all in all, people generally have reasons for doing the things they do, regardless of how offensive or irrational they become - it's human nature. I'm not making excuses for the small percentage of players that do come in here for minor beefs and complaints with little or not intention on 'productivity' or 'improvement' toward the situation. In fact it's people like that who give the critics a bad name. But we must be intelligent enough to differentiate between the two, wouldn't you agree?

Charles.