01-02-2002 07:04									#31
	Support Apolyton, buy Galactic Civilizations: Deluxe Edition

Airports have improved. You can now build one and then airlift in as many units as you have other airports.

	01-02-2002 08:20									#32
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization III: Complete

I just wanted to say I think there is a lot great about Civ3. There must be an awful lot great, or people who quit playing it wouldn't keep posting and hoping for the game to be "fixed".

I'm one of those people, but I'm still here. I have never ever kept going to a forum for a game I quit playing before, even games I really liked and played for a long time.

Since I just did a "wish list", and have posted about Civ3 problems before, it is only fair to list the good things, so here goes:

* The AI is good, for an AI. No it is not as smart as you, and yes you can still exploit it and outdo it ... its just an AI. However, that said, it is a real good AI. It plays better than the Civ 2 or CTP AI, and vastly better than RTS style AIs. As someone said, the game was modified to let the AI do better ... but the AI does indeed do better.

* The AI actually keeps up with you in expansion! This was a really novel experience for me in a 4x game. Some people hate this and call it "settler diareah", but this was how I always played, so an AI that can keep up is a FANTASTIC improvement for me at least.

* Diplomacy is good. Yes, diplomacy is pretty much glorified trading, but it is still pretty good. It is much better than Civ2's, and you can make some cool deals with it. As an adjunct to this, the trading itself is also very cool.

* Luxuries and Strategic Resources are a lot of fun. Just finding out if your empire contains them is fun, and securing them through war and trade is maybe the funnest dilemna in the game.

* Related to this, the road net and trade net are cool, as are the benefits of having a marketplace. I get real excited having all 8 luxuries, because with the marketplace happiness is never ever a problem. That is a more fun way to solve unhappiness than luxury rate or building wonders/colloseums.

* Combat is flawed, but still fun. The AI fights fairly well (except for the always being lured to an undefended city loophole). I have never ever felt like I could lose a battle if I played poorly in a 4x game before like I do in Civ3. No AI before has had the attack capability this one does (just my opinion).

* Civs have unique bonuses and aren't identicle anymore! Finally! Also, unique units are cool and fun, even if some are weak.

* Population points have unique nationality! Finally! They even resist different nationalities more. I was very happy to finally have this ... wanted it ever since Master of Magic.

* You have to garrison your conquests. They don't magically become as loyal and productive as your home cities. I have always wanted this badly (however I still hate the vanishing garrison feature, no matter what Marc Antony did).

* Except for the horror that is a RR blanket, graphics do look very nice. Combat animations are neat; love the swaying Frigate.

* Great Leaders are exciting to get. Armies are far too weak, but still cool to have, just as a "prestige" unit.

* Air units are unique from ground units. I love the way they work. Assigning missions feels more like being a modern commander. Even if they aren't perfect, great job on reworking these from the old "hanging bombers" silliness.

* Bombard units are also differnt, not just high attack units. I enjoy that Infantry+Artillery fights very different than an all mounted army.

* Corruption does make large empires have a drawback, and not as overwhelming as previous 4x games.

* Wonders, at least early ones, are an actual accomplishment to build rather than a caravan fest.

I could go on real easy, too. Now never let it be said I'm all a "whiner".

There is a lot great about Civ3 ... that is why people like me are still around, hoping. If just a few key barriers to fun were removed, this game would truly be great. A very few barriers, but important ones.

Thanks for reading, I know its a long post.

	06-02-2002 21:38									#33
	Avatar Enlargement: We've got the solution

quote: Originally posted by nato I just wanted to say I think there is a lot great about Civ3. There must be an awful lot great, or people who quit playing it wouldn't keep posting and hoping for the game to be "fixed". I'm one of those people, but I'm still here. I have never ever kept going to a forum for a game I quit playing before, even games I really liked and played for a long time. Since I just did a "wish list", and have posted about Civ3 problems before, it is only fair to list the good things, so here goes: * The AI is good, for an AI. No it is not as smart as you, and yes you can still exploit it and outdo it ... its just an AI. However, that said, it is a real good AI. It plays better than the Civ 2 or CTP AI, and vastly better than RTS style AIs. As someone said, the game was modified to let the AI do better ... but the AI does indeed do better. * The AI actually keeps up with you in expansion! This was a really novel experience for me in a 4x game. Some people hate this and call it "settler diareah", but this was how I always played, so an AI that can keep up is a FANTASTIC improvement for me at least. * Diplomacy is good. Yes, diplomacy is pretty much glorified trading, but it is still pretty good. It is much better than Civ2's, and you can make some cool deals with it. As an adjunct to this, the trading itself is also very cool. * Luxuries and Strategic Resources are a lot of fun. Just finding out if your empire contains them is fun, and securing them through war and trade is maybe the funnest dilemna in the game. * Related to this, the road net and trade net are cool, as are the benefits of having a marketplace. I get real excited having all 8 luxuries, because with the marketplace happiness is never ever a problem. That is a more fun way to solve unhappiness than luxury rate or building wonders/colloseums. * Combat is flawed, but still fun. The AI fights fairly well (except for the always being lured to an undefended city loophole). I have never ever felt like I could lose a battle if I played poorly in a 4x game before like I do in Civ3. No AI before has had the attack capability this one does (just my opinion). * Civs have unique bonuses and aren't identicle anymore! Finally! Also, unique units are cool and fun, even if some are weak. * Population points have unique nationality! Finally! They even resist different nationalities more. I was very happy to finally have this ... wanted it ever since Master of Magic. * You have to garrison your conquests. They don't magically become as loyal and productive as your home cities. I have always wanted this badly (however I still hate the vanishing garrison feature, no matter what Marc Antony did). * Except for the horror that is a RR blanket, graphics do look very nice. Combat animations are neat; love the swaying Frigate. * Great Leaders are exciting to get. Armies are far too weak, but still cool to have, just as a "prestige" unit. * Air units are unique from ground units. I love the way they work. Assigning missions feels more like being a modern commander. Even if they aren't perfect, great job on reworking these from the old "hanging bombers" silliness. * Bombard units are also differnt, not just high attack units. I enjoy that Infantry+Artillery fights very different than an all mounted army. * Corruption does make large empires have a drawback, and not as overwhelming as previous 4x games. * Wonders, at least early ones, are an actual accomplishment to build rather than a caravan fest. I could go on real easy, too. Now never let it be said I'm all a "whiner". There is a lot great about Civ3 ... that is why people like me are still around, hoping. If just a few key barriers to fun were removed, this game would truly be great. A very few barriers, but important ones. Thanks for reading, I know its a long post.

And libertarian says My english is bad!! LOL

	06-02-2002 21:42									#34
	Support Apolyton, buy Galactic Civilizations: Deluxe Edition

quote: Originally posted by The Andy-Man i already got civ3, and will play it when i get a new PC anyway, but the flaws and problems talk about sound like they are REAL annoying flaws, and i hated CTP1 (never got 2) so if Civ3 is like that then i may have to use the CD as a Frisby. Does anyone know if they are gonna do a proper patch (one that makes it a fun game) - and wasn't one of the patches ment to make it possible to sink ships with planes? Also, can you turn off the culture thing all together (the bordrs in SMAC werent that bad, i kinda liked that game, if only they had set it on earth so i didnt have all this nerdy SUPER MAN SUCKING STEEL crap) And i heard about the AI cheating, well in Civ2 i was fine with it all except these, and i wanna know if they gone: In ALL Civ 2 games (even ToT) the AI new the location of EVERY unit, even subs which are supposed to be hidden. (once i had a FULLY LADEN (32 stealth) on a carrier, there was literally no enemy unit (i later used cheat mode to look) or city for about 30 space, yet about 50 cruise missiles appeared out of know, which brings me to my next point: Does the AI get increadibly high amounts of highly sophisticated weapon even though there is no realistic way they coulda built them (i spied on a jap city once in civ2, 100 cruise missiles, litrely). there is a couple of others, but thwese pissed me off more then ANYTHING.

You asked, we answered. But it seems your mind is already made up about the game, you hate it and you haven't tried it, so why waste our time with this thread..........

	06-02-2002 23:28									#35
	Got spare money?

quote: And libertarian says My english is bad!! LOL

I should probably know better than to ask, but all right ... what in the world are you talking about? I don't see any major problem with my English.

	06-02-2002 23:30									#36
	Suffering from ads?

What was bad about nato's English, Spec?

	06-02-2002 23:38									#37
	Tired of ads?

quote: Originally posted by Spectator And libertarian says My english is bad!! LOL

Way to quote the entire post to add one line.

	07-02-2002 00:52									#38
	Browse Apolyton AD-FREE

my mind wasnt made up, infact i could never see why ppl were so up in arms about the problems. but now i played it somes things just piss me off royaly. ie, AI ICS.

general shitiness of the diplomacy model (they had alliances in ancient times i am sure of it)


and there is just a general lack of fun in the game, which civ2 had plenty of, for even though it was sometimes to easy, atleast there were many different ways to win. civ3 seems to be all about expansion.

	07-02-2002 20:15									#39
	Full PM-box? Change here!

quote: Originally posted by Dissident civ3 is the greatest game ever created by man with the excpetion of the Nokia cell phone game snake.

You are the MAN!!! Snake II is even better but I switched to a stupid Siemans so I got stuck with Connect Four and a lame version of Microsoft's Minesweeper...

Haven't played CivIII enough to know if I like it better than CivII but my first impressions are generally favorable.

	07-02-2002 20:24									#40
	Support Apolyton, pre-order Civilization IV

quote: Originally posted by nato I should probably know better than to ask, but all right ... what in the world are you talking about? I don't see any major problem with my English.

I guess if one spells "identical" wrong it removes the validity of the entire post. And saying "a lot of great" is sort of awkward as well.

But I've seen and done much worse so I could do without people picking on other people's English skills.

	07-02-2002 20:28									#41
	Increase the size of your Attachments

quote: Originally posted by fittstim You are the MAN!!! Snake II is even better

Snake II is better, but the controls are still messed up...

About Civ3, a game that makes you go "just one more turn" for several hours can't be all bad.

	07-02-2002 21:54									#42
	Support Apolyton buy from Amazon

but it dosnt make me want to go one more turn. just makes me want to go.

	08-02-2002 05:34									#43
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization: The Boardgame

quote: Originally posted by The Andy-Man and there is just a general lack of fun in the game, which civ2 had plenty of, for even though it was sometimes to easy, atleast there were many different ways to win. civ3 seems to be all about expansion.

Aren't ALL games in this genre "all about expansion"? One way or another, isn't that the basic point of playing Civ or SMAC or CTP or EU2 Space Empires 4 or any of those games?

It could be that some people for whom the fun just isn't there may simply have outgrown the conquer-the-world game genre. Maybe they had so much fun in Civ 2 or CTP2 or something that they expected Civ 3 to somehow change their lives.

But there is only so much a game can do, and only so much a game of this type can be. You start out small, you grow, you dominate or you die (in game turns) and lose. Everything that accompanies that line of progression is just chrome.

Until software companies like Firaxis have unlimited resources for development, and until we gamers have supercomputers on our gaming tables, there are always going to be limits to what a $50 game can do.

For me, Civ 3 is an excellent game. It plays well, the chrome is different and in many ways superior to that of previous games of the genre, and it doesn't crash. It takes me away from the real world and my own problems. That's good enough.

It's a game, and for me it does what a game should do.

	09-02-2002 00:24									#44
	Increase Your PM Length

well, many a time i had a small empire in civ2, and just played to build up some super cities and stop weaker nations geting trounced/ and to just basically be pacifist. Civ3 has taken this option out.

	09-02-2002 01:29									#45
	Got spare money?

quote: Originally posted by The Andy-Man well, many a time i had a small empire in civ2, and just played to build up some super cities and stop weaker nations geting trounced/ and to just basically be pacifist. Civ3 has taken this option out.

It's all in the way you play the game. I have played a couple games now where I ended up with a very small empires (6-7 cities). You just have to protect yourself by having enough culture to prevent flipping and enough units to protect from attack. Alot of tech brokering is required and skillfull resource trading. I won a space race victory in the early 1900s with a 4 city Egyptian empire.

I do prefer to have something like 20-30 cities, but sometimes you just take what the game gives you.

	10-02-2002 19:39									#46
	Support Apolyton, buy Call to Power 2

Civ3 rule

	12-02-2002 16:53									#47
	Put an end to popups!

The best thing about it is that it uninstalls fairly cleanly.