13-02-2002 02:50									#31
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quote: How do you detect the cheater?

That is the big question. Unless they make it obvious with their actions, we probably can't.

	13-02-2002 02:51									#32
	Inflate your Upload Space

quote: Originally posted by Purple That's fine for honorable players, but such a rule (or even a patch) wouldn't deter the unscrupulous.

Face the fact, that if the patche fixes this (don't know if it does) all new tournaments will be for v1.17f games, and can't be oened with 1.16f or 1.07f, so the bug would not do any harm.

	13-02-2002 02:54									#33
	DP - double post Support Apolyton, pre-order Civilization IV

- edited out -

This DP was caused by me using 5+ IE windows, and one of them generated a Database error at my post in this thread, (54 minutes before this one), and 54 minutes after I posted I was back to that IE session, and saw the error, and hit refresh. That resulted in this post.

Now I edit the post to avoid confusing people.

Last edited by Gramphos on 13-02-2002 at 03:22

	13-02-2002 02:55									#34
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quote: Originally posted by Gramphos Face the fact, that if the patche fixes this (don't know if it does) all new tournaments will be for v1.17f games, and can't be oened with 1.16f or 1.07f, so the bug would not do any harm.

Let's hope this is the case.

	13-02-2002 03:09									#35
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Unfortunately this isn't fixed in v1.17f as we just heard about it last night. We take its impact on tourneys seriously though, so it will be fixed.

Jeff

	13-02-2002 03:12									#36
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quote: Originally posted by Jeffrey Morris FIRAXIS Unfortunately this isn't fixed in v1.17f as we just heard about it last night. We take its impact on tourneys seriously though, so it will be fixed. Jeff

WHAT
You can't fix something overnight
Bummer

Thanks for the info... One of the worst things about Civ II MP was that you could open saved files with the editor, even if they were passworded... While trust and honor are wonderful things, it's just a lot easier if it can't be done

	13-02-2002 04:09									#37
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quote: Originally posted by Jeffrey Morris FIRAXIS Unfortunately this isn't fixed in v1.17f as we just heard about it last night. We take its impact on tourneys seriously though, so it will be fixed. Jeff

Does this mean that you (Firaxians) didn't know about this? Didn't you put it in there in the first place?


-FMK.

	13-02-2002 04:12									#38
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quote: Originally posted by Field Marshal Klesh Does this mean that you (Firaxians) didn't know about this? Didn't you put it in there in the first place? -FMK.

I think it was a feature only for the debugversion, but was left in the full versions.

	13-02-2002 04:50									#39
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quote: Originally posted by Jeffrey Morris FIRAXIS Unfortunately this isn't fixed in v1.17f as we just heard about it last night. We take its impact on tourneys seriously though, so it will be fixed. Jeff

Jeff,
Thanks for the info; I guess this blows a big hole in the theory that the Firaxians put this in as a god/cheat mode. So does that mean this qualifies as an unintended bug?

	13-02-2002 10:04									#40
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For tournaments. Wouldn't winning (or showing well) taste sweeter when you know you haven't done this?

As for a *bug*. It ain't a bug. If it's a bug, I'll send Valentines to Lib and Yin. Bug's don't act like this. The problem that Firaxis has to fix is that anybody outside the core of the design team ever discovered the code. They'll probably just change it.

Salve

	13-02-2002 11:01									#41
	Use found for Cheat Code Avatar Enlargement: We've got the solution

I have found a good use for the cheat code. The editor doesn't have a minimap when you're creating a map, so it's not possible to get a minimap to use with the map.

So we use the cheat to get a minimap instead.

With this cheat code, you can load a game with the map at 4000 BC and use the cheat to reveal the whole map. Then all that is needed is to capture the minimap in Geography mode from the Main Screen.

	13-02-2002 11:50									#42
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quote: Originally posted by notyoueither For tournaments. Wouldn't winning (or showing well) taste sweeter when you know you haven't done this? Salve

It would be nice if this was the case, but look at other on-line games (counterstrike comes immediately to mind). There will always be people, and sometimes quite a lot of people, who get off on winning using a cheat.

	13-02-2002 12:12									#43
	old 'early restart' topic w/ cheat code Support Apolyton

in playing a game from the start with the cheat mode on, i got to see the full results of what happens when you eliminate an AI tribe early on -- i knocked off the romans in 1850 BC rushing straight at them with persian immortals. the moment i destroyed their final city, Antium, a brand new Antium was instantly created on the opposite end of my continent.

so, restarts do happen instantaneously at early ages, and they do happen in the middle of the very turn that you are on. i also found that the new Antium had a worker, archer, and spearman, as well as an instant 80 gold pieces. they ended up being much better off after being 'destroyed' the first time.

	13-02-2002 15:18									#44
	Suffering from ads?

If someone relies on cheating, chances are they wont be a good player anyway, and will waste their advantage.

OTOH, if some players weren't doing too well in previous tournaments before everyone knew of this cheat, and suddenly get better... it would be highly suspicious...

	13-02-2002 20:52									#45
	Get a bigger avatar today!

While it's great to see your quick response, Jeff, and while I've been decrying the use of this "feature" by cheaters, I regret that the creators will lose a very useful tool if it is patched out.

On the balance, I think I favor adding an optional lock that will not eliminate the functionality of the multi.sav trick, but will let creators finish up a map, scenario, etc. by preventing others from peeking and/or modifying the finished file.

Maybe this is what you had in mind, Jeff?

	13-02-2002 22:55									#46
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LOL @ Jeff Morris. You Firaxians implement code you don't know anything about .

	14-02-2002 05:51									#47
	Avatar Enlargement: We've got the solution

I think Cheat mode should be in it as it was in Civ II...enable it, everyone knows. You don't know what its like to get fustrated and not be able to nuke those damn musketeers!!! Its fun. It should be availible, but like it was in Civ II.

	14-02-2002 06:47									#48
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quote: Originally posted by Solver LOL @ Jeff Morris. You Firaxians implement code you don't know anything about .

Not quite... let's just say those responsible for this little dandy are no longer on the Christmas card list ...

Dan

	14-02-2002 07:38									#49
	Tired of ads?

Hey Dan, WE WANT WHAT CIV II HAD: a Cheat Mode.

I used it for a lot more than "cheating" such as running games automatically or switching sides.

As for Christmas cards, we'll send Valentines to anyone who gives us SCENARIO BUILDING, or are you going to stick it to the buying public with mediocre scenarios at $25 a CD?

Blessings to whoever came up with that code. It helps against your cheating AI.

BTW, be sure an upcoming patch does away with nonsense such as ocean-going galleys or warships that cannot be sunk by bombers.

	14-02-2002 08:28									#50
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Hey!

I just noticed. You can also change the production of enemy cities, and even contact their governors.

During time of war I can have them all building some Happiness projects!

	14-02-2002 13:09									#51
	Inflate your Upload Space

quote: Originally posted by Dan Magaha FIRAXIS Not quite... let's just say those responsible for this little dandy are no longer on the Christmas card list ... Dan

Sabotage? Subterfuge?

Tell us more.

As if.

Salve

	14-02-2002 13:16									#52
	Re: Use found for Cheat Code Avatar Enlargement: We've got the solution

quote: Originally posted by star mouse I have found a good use for the cheat code. The editor doesn't have a minimap when you're creating a map, so it's not possible to get a minimap to use with the map.

It's also a great way of learning how the various civs do things. I realized while looking at the various governors last night, that someone could do a fairly good analysis of their behaviours and tactics while they're building. Unfortunately, I don't have the patience myself, so I'm hoping someone else gets the same idea and runs with it.

	14-02-2002 14:15									#53
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quote: Originally posted by Dan Magaha FIRAXIS Not quite... let's just say those responsible for this little dandy are no longer on the Christmas card list ... Dan

Hmmm, if that was left in, perhaps there are other 'lil dandies also left in... ??

	15-02-2002 00:42									#54
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quote: Originally posted by Dan Magaha FIRAXIS Not quite... let's just say those responsible for this little dandy are no longer on the Christmas card list ... Dan

That's too bad. I wouldn't exactly call this easter-egg/cheat a terrible offence. As a programmer I would like to get away with leaving a goody or two behind...
-Brian