13-02-2002 03:32									#31
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You sure he wouldn't like to build a hospital?

	13-02-2002 03:49									#32
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Lincoln may be the only one that would want a hospital over a wonder

	13-02-2002 03:57									#33
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Im sorry Sir, but SimGolf has built the patch, a mere 3 turns before we could finish it. Ive changed production to a hospital.

	13-02-2002 04:20									#34
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We have the capacity for a larger military, Sir. Build more anti-tank spearmen, it is 1939 after all...

	13-02-2002 06:13									#35
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quote: Originally posted by Libertarian Merely a continuance of the oppression we have endured since Fort Sumter was seized by Yankee tyrants. [...Bartender! Another mint julep, please...]

Gotta agree with Lib on this one... you need only examine the gross injustices of the so-called "reconstruction" to understand the lingering angst of everyone south of the Mason-Dixon line.

The Confederacy never got very far past its own borders - Maryland was technically a southern state to begin with, and Gettysburg (the "high-water mark" of the Confederacy) is only a few miles into Pennsylvania. Certainly, there was never any sort of widespread pillage undertaken by the rebels, contrary to the cowardly and disgusting tactics taken by the likes of Sherman in Georgia, for example.

	13-02-2002 06:38									#36
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quote: We have the capacity for a larger military, Sir. Build more anti-tank spearmen, it is 1939 after all...

If only the Poles or the French had built a few of those guys! But no, they had to be mundane and make Riflemen, so they didn't have enough.

A classic, tragic case of in-the-box thinking...

	13-02-2002 06:39									#37
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quote: Originally posted by FNBrown Gotta agree with Lib on this one... you need only examine the gross injustices of the so-called "reconstruction" to understand the lingering angst of everyone south of the Mason-Dixon line. The Confederacy never got very far past its own borders - Maryland was technically a southern state to begin with, and Gettysburg (the "high-water mark" of the Confederacy) is only a few miles into Pennsylvania. Certainly, there was never any sort of widespread pillage undertaken by the rebels, contrary to the cowardly and disgusting tactics taken by the likes of Sherman in Georgia, for example.

I can't resist. Sorry for driving this farther off topic.

The southern states knew full well that there would be war if they seceded. Lincoln said that he would do anything possible to prevent secession, even if that meant going to war. When the rebels left the Union, they started the war. They didn't invade into the north, but they were acting as a foreign power taking over the southern third of the US, ie starting a war.

I'm not saying that reconstruction was good (it was terrible), or that no southerners still believe in the CSA (unfortunatly, they do).

Steele

	13-02-2002 06:41									#38
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"Sir, should we begin production of Swordsmen? "

"What? Still? Build tanks!"

"Ok, Sir, building swordsmen."

Steele

	13-02-2002 06:46									#39
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quote: Originally posted by FNBrown there was never any sort of widespread pillage undertaken by the rebels, contrary to the cowardly and disgusting tactics taken by the likes of Sherman in Georgia, for example.

Read up on the history of bloody Kansas before and during the Civil War, particularly Quantrel's Raiders. May not have been "widespread pillage", but there are always plenty of atrocities to around in a war.

	13-02-2002 06:47									#40
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Had Stonewall survived to command his wing of the ANV at Gettysburg he would have taken the high ground at the end of the first day of battle. Meade, who was just taking command, would have been at grave risk of having his army routed. This would not have been new, Yankee armies ran more often than not. But, given Lee's close proximity to Washington, the possibility of Southern independance becoming reality was quite real.

I said that to say this: Adding leaders to the game would add a bit of flavor to a bland stew. I would like to see random events including leader spawning added to the expansion/Gold Edition/whateveryoucallit.

	13-02-2002 06:55									#41
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Steele, please, whatever you do ... don't try to paint the South as the bad guys in the war of Northern Agression. There are two sides to every coin but the winner gets to mint them.

Both the North and South were rebels in the War of Independance. If Britain had won history would say that the rebels were the bad guys. If the South had successfully resisted the Northern invasion in the 1860s then textbooks around here would read differently.

	13-02-2002 07:03									#42
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Typical of northern propaganda is bringing up the issue of Quantrell to offset Sherman. Sherman was acting in accord with the wishes of his government, Lincoln himself is responsible for this. Quantrell was acting outside of official Confederate sanction.

	13-02-2002 07:40									#43
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Well said, jimmytrick.

	13-02-2002 08:09									#44
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quote: Originally posted by siredgar Shouldn't Lincoln be smiling if it's his birthday? Or does he know he's about to be assassinated?

He's not smiling because he knows that the patch won't fix many things...

	13-02-2002 08:50									#45
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quote: Originally posted by Libertarian You must be a Yankee. You think it's over.

http://www.theonion.com/onion3613/south_postpones.html

	13-02-2002 09:42									#46
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I can appreciate the humor in that.

Still, things change and the bitterness is forever stored in the collective Southern memory.

You never know what might happen. Canada might invade and we rednecks just might wait till they get to Mason Dixon to stop them. That would be A-OK by me.

	13-02-2002 09:45									#47
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BTW, its good to see AnnC post here again.

	13-02-2002 11:04									#48
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Continue arguing about ACW and then start playing Civ3

I guess every nation has to have it's tribalistic sects. I guess it helps them to pull together when it counts.

BTW, did I mention I was an out-sider?

Kill the Out-sider and then argue about ACW

Salve

	13-02-2002 11:06									#49
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"Yes, sir. The South will rise again, and when it does, I'll be right up front waving the Stars and Bars," said Dock Mullins of Decatur, GA. "But first, I gotta get my truck fixed and get that rusty old stove out of my yard."

I really like that article.

Happy birthday to the greatest US president ever. May Hell exist if only for the sake of J.W. Booth's eternal torment.

	13-02-2002 11:17									#50
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I am confident — and grateful — that in His perfect judgment of men's hearts, God does not seek out your advice and counsel. Moreover, people who cram the poor into roach and rat infested hovels in the South Bronx ought not to deride Georgian trucks. Perhaps the late twentieth-century southward migration was not without cause.

	13-02-2002 15:55									#51
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quote: Originally posted by jimmytrick Steele, please, whatever you do ... don't try to paint the South as the bad guys in the war of Northern Agression. There are two sides to every coin but the winner gets to mint them. Both the North and South were rebels in the War of Independance. If Britain had won history would say that the rebels were the bad guys. If the South had successfully resisted the Northern invasion in the 1860s then textbooks around here would read differently.

I apologize if I came off sounding like that; it was unintended. I cannot help having some dislike for the CSA, as I am in the US Navy. However, I do know the facts, and niether side can be rightfully called the "bad guys." It was a terrible war that killed many thousands of young men on both sides.

My original point was that niether side started the war, alternatively, both sides started the war. There was no aggressor, no antagonist in this war.

Steele

	13-02-2002 20:17									#52
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Damn! As a native son of the Great State of Illinois I just wanted to wish the Greatest American President a happy birthday and I ended up restarting the American Civil War.

There is a lot of power on this forum!

	13-02-2002 20:18									#53
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quote: Originally posted by jimmytrick Typical of northern propaganda is bringing up the issue of Quantrell to offset Sherman. Sherman was acting in accord with the wishes of his government, Lincoln himself is responsible for this. Quantrell was acting outside of official Confederate sanction.

Slavery was officially sanctioned by the Confederacy. While I'm not saying this means Sherman should have done what he did, all I'm saying is that in wars there are plenty of atrocities to go around. To be honest, officially sanctioned means squat when you're in the middle of a war. People do what they do.

As for Quantrell, he may not have been officially sanctioned but he was not exactly censured by the Confederacy either. Sherman's pillage happened, Quantrell's massacres of civilians happened, slavery happened. Our country is still trying to digest the results of the war - Southern resentment, civil rights, people's needs for vengeance, etc. While the fighting may have ended long ago, many issues are still in the process of being resolved (if indeed they ever do).

Now with that said, I'm going to S. Carolina next week on business and you all are making me nervous!