14-02-2002 06:11									#31
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Let me see here. I am a bit rusty after 2 years.

America is gone now.

Kitty Hawk is still around for a while longer. Same with Kennedy I think

Kitty Hawk, Constellation, Enterprise, Kennedy, Nimitz, Ike, Vinson, Roosevelt, Lincoln, Washington, Stennis, and Truman.

Of those only 3 are conventional. That makes 9 nuclear powered aircraft carriers. 1 Enterprise class, and 8 Nimitz class.

edit: I changed a 2 to a 3

	14-02-2002 06:17									#32
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MtG,

Wrong. Constellation is in mothballs, Kennedy is still around.

Mothballed carriers are the Constellation, Ranger, Independence, and America.

Dissident, the Constellation was never a nuclear powered carrier IIRC. And the Reagan will be operational soon, BTW.

	14-02-2002 06:22									#33
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DF,


Sorry.....i dont know this one.


But arent our National Gaurd forces paid for and maintained bye the States? Each State (cept alaska) has a national Gaurd (7,000-50,000).

And this means the funds from Madison, as opposed to Washington?

	14-02-2002 06:28									#34
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Actually I'm not sure.

I do think, though, that we should have a large National Guard and a small standing army. But the States should not be compulsed to maintain any specific number of troops, either.

	14-02-2002 06:31									#35
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I had the contellation as a conventional carrier. I just miscounted that's all

I served 4 years on the first nuke carrier. And it was just a piece of sh!t. They really didn't have that good of nuclear plant designs back then. The reactors weren't much bigger than sub reactors. And the put 8 of them in!.

It's actually easier to keep the ship in commission than decommission it.

So there are already 12 in service now. The Truman being the most recent. When the Reagon comes around they will decomission one of the conventionals. I think the Kitty Hawk, but I'm not sure.

And the Kennedy is a reserve ship. I'm not sure how they use it. I recall they did actually do a med cruise a few years ago. They have a a high reservist ratio operating that ship. it is used for training purposes.

edit: I keep messing this post up!

	14-02-2002 06:32									#36
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quote: Originally posted by David Floyd MtG, Wrong. Constellation is in mothballs, Kennedy is still around. Mothballed carriers are the Constellation, Ranger, Independence, and America. Dissident, the Constellation was never a nuclear powered carrier IIRC. And the Reagan will be operational soon, BTW.

Well, since GP isn't around (and he's a submariner anyway) I can say this. I never paid that much attention to the navy because I never really thought of them as part of the military.

	14-02-2002 06:33									#37
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You were on the Enterprise? That's a famous ship

	14-02-2002 06:34									#38
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quote: Well, since GP isn't around (and he's a submariner anyway) I can say this. I never paid that much attention to the navy because I never really thought of them as part of the military.

Hehehehe, yeah....I only know it because I used to do DotW and all that stuff before I got bored with people wanting to be realistic and ****

	14-02-2002 06:36									#39
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and here I was saying we should reduce the number to 10. But that just isn't realistic after Afghanistan. I can't see us being in Saudi Arabia much longer. We need those carriers.

	14-02-2002 06:37									#40
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Why?

	14-02-2002 07:07									#41
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I just said.

Especially if we are booted out of Saudi Arabia. Although that isn't that big a deal, since we are never allowed to use those planes anyways

I'm not sure of the exact numbers. But I'm pretty sure the navy handled most of the load in this recent Afghanistang conflict. B-52's and B-1's flying out of Diego Garcia would not have been sufficient to win this war.

	14-02-2002 07:16									#42
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That of course assumes we need to be getting into foreign entanglements that would "justify" a navy of 12+ carriers

	14-02-2002 07:23									#43
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we also have dozens of smaller carriers and helicopter transports. My Bro in law is on the Pelelui (damn it...cant spell it. So i just pronounce,. Pel-a-lou)

	14-02-2002 07:26									#44
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quote: Originally posted by David Floyd That of course assumes we need to be getting into foreign entanglements that would "justify" a navy of 12+ carriers

Exactly! If only we would embrace glorious isolationism we would have no problems!
Say, build a big wall around the country, forbid contact with people from other countries, that might work!

	14-02-2002 07:27									#45
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Peleliu

OK I looked it up.

yeah amphib ships. I served on one. But mine wasn't a newer LHA or LHD platform. It was an LPH. we had a flight deck that was used for helicopter transports but we could also support harriers. Probably about 2/3 the size of a LHA.

bunch of jarheads to deal with there .

	14-02-2002 07:27									#46
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quote: Originally posted by faded glory we also have dozens of smaller carriers and helicopter transports. My Bro in law is on the Pelelui (damn it...cant spell it. So i just pronounce,. Pel-a-lou)

As in like France carrier size or something? I thought all we had were Supercarriers, plus helicopters off of Destroyers/Cruisers.

	14-02-2002 07:35									#47
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LHA's and LHD's

http://www.chinfo.navy.mil/navpalib...s/ship-lha.html

Attachment: lhd5a.gif
This has been downloaded 87 time(s).

	14-02-2002 09:15									#48
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quote: Originally posted by Dissident And the Kennedy is a reserve ship. I'm not sure how they use it. I recall they did actually do a med cruise a few years ago. They have a a high reservist ratio operating that ship. it is used for training purposes. edit: I keep messing this post up!

Well, you won't like this but the Kennedy is not a reserve flattop, in fact she left for the Arabian Sea not too long ago. (Best friend's older brother is a Petty Officer on her)

It is also the biggest piece of crap I've ever seen. Brazil's carrier is better maintained.

It's worth noting after the Jacksonville newspaper grabbed hold of the internal inspection Docs, the crew had a 2 week 24-hour run on repairing the damn thing. 140 Engineers (some were civilians brought down from NNS) went AWOL.

In November, the Damn thing almost sank at dock, and on the last cruise, the fuel got mixed in with the drinking water.

So, who here thinks that maybe the USN needs to have a fricking bone thrown here?

	14-02-2002 09:24									#49
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fuel in the drinking water. LOL

That's worse than my ship. We had CHT get into the fuel. And I had to analyze that sh!t. Literally . CHT is pretty much sewage for anyone who cares.

I am curious what happened. So that was an engineering problem? Sucks for them. I was a machinist mate (although our rating does no machining . That is for MR's). I ran propulsion plants. I'm curious how they screwed that up.

	14-02-2002 09:26									#50
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Duh. Why don't i just read the link. I got it thanks.

Loss of main engine vacuum. Jeez they must be in poor shape. Trying to do high power runs on 3 shafts. I can't imagine how bad that ship is. I know a few girls that went to that ship. Don't get me started on female Machinist mates . Although some of them were quite good, most were not.

This is the kind of stuff I grew to love. But no ship I was on was in this poor of shape. I'm sure the Engineer's career is pretty much toast. He will never get Captain of a ship (many carrier engineers are already the rank of Captain- maybe all of them)

AFTER THREE FULL DAYS OF PRE-UNDERWAY MATERIAL CHECKS, THE SHIP COMMENCED THE UNDERWAY PHASE OF THE MI WITH THREE MAIN ENGINES AND FIVE BOILERS CLEARED FOR OPERATION. MMR NR 1 HAD SEVERAL UNCORRECTED MAJOR DEFICIENCIES THAT RENDERED IT UNSAFE FOR OPERATION. AN ATTEMPT TO CONDUCT A MODIFIED HIGH POWER DEMONSTRATION AT 23 KNOTS ON THREE SHAFTS WAS UNSUCCESSFUL DUE TO NUMEROUS CASUALTIES. THESE INCLUDED LOSS OF MAIN ENGINE VACUUM, CASUALTIES TO MMR NR 3 FUEL OIL SERVICE PUMPS WITH THE SUBSEQUENT LOSS OF ONE BOILER IN THAT SPACE, AND CASUALTIES TO OTHER MAJOR EQUIPMENT INCLUDING A MAIN FEED PUMP, A FORCED DRAFT BLOWER, AND MULTIPLE AIR EJECTORS. THE PROPULSION PLANT WAS EVALUATED TO BE EXTREMELY UNRELIABLE AND DETERMINED TO BE ROUTINELY OPERATED OUT OF SAFE PARAMETERS AND IN NON-STANDARD CONFIGURATION. TWO SHAFT SEALS HAD UNACCEPTABLE LEAKAGE RATES AND ONE RECENTLY REPLACED SEAL ON A THIRD SHAFT (ALTHOUGH STILL IN THE BREAK-IN PERIOD) HAD AN OBSERVED LEAKAGE RATE THAT SUGGESTS IT WILL NOT BE SATISFACTORY

	14-02-2002 09:27									#51
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Why not just decommission the damn thing? We don't need it or anything.

	14-02-2002 09:50									#52
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quote: Originally posted by David Floyd Why not just decommission the damn thing? We don't need it or anything.

So, are you saying that we don't need to have the ability to deploy two carriers somewhere at once? Bear in mind, if we start expanding the tours of duty even more,lots and lots of people are going to quit and never look back.

	14-02-2002 09:54									#53
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Great, then we can cut it back even further

	14-02-2002 09:56									#54
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To the contrary, I think that carrier demonstrates just exactly why we need more funding for our armed forces.

	14-02-2002 09:58									#55
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quote: Originally posted by David Floyd Great, then we can cut it back even further

More likely well be even more short handed. The only way to come up with people then would be to hold a draft, and that would turn nasty when all the cowards, er, "Concientious objectors" flee.

I'm glad someone appreciates what these Servicemen are doing, because it's clear you don't.

	14-02-2002 10:00									#56
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quote: Originally posted by OneFootInTheGrave Anyway i did not expect that 40% of the military spending in the world is spent by the US

In the early '90s it was half the military spending in the world. Now remember, unlike some countries, we pay our soldiers. Also, a lot of our military spending is pure pork barrel stuff that is unneeded and/or unwanted by the military.

When all is said and done, more than half our Federal budget goes to pay for past, present, and future wars. Veterans programs, war loan repayments, military hardware, soldiers, GI bills, etc., and so forth.

	14-02-2002 10:02									#57
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Lonestar, if we don't have the assets to wage offensive war, we won't - and no country is gonna mess with us, whether we have 2 carriers or 12 or 100.

Terrorists, maybe, but carriers don't deter terrorists.

	14-02-2002 10:06									#58
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quote: Originally posted by David Floyd Terrorists, maybe, but carriers don't deter terrorists.

Oh but they do. If they cant have camps, funding and shelter. They cant have an organization, can they?

	14-02-2002 10:09									#59
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So you're telling me more aircraft carriers would have deterred 9/11??

	14-02-2002 10:09									#60
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I think the manpower issue in the Navy, and in the armed forces is a serious problem.

Although recent events should aleviate that problem.

I started seeing real problems in the mid to late 90's. With a strong economy, nobody who was smart and knew what they were doing wanted to stay in the navy. Myself included. The quality of men on ships was spiralling downward. This carrier is a prime example. Most people want to get paid for doing nothing. And when you have supervisors that allow this to happen, preventative maintenance get sidetracked. And we have the USS Kennedy debacle. I had good engineers (and Reactor Officers). They worked us hard, but it prevented serious problems like this.

Now that jobs are more scarce and the economy is tough. This is actually good for the military. It will bring in better quality people. Of course pay increases wouldn't hurt as well .