28-02-2002 01:43									#31
	Help yourself to an AD-FREE life

The Zulus continue to impress me with their straightforward insanity. Here’s the deal:

In the mid-1800s, my Aztec civ was moving right along pretty peacefully in the Industrial age. I had developed Replaceable Parts – which meant infantry and artillery – so I figured the AI civs would be leery of taking a poke at me.

For some reason, the Romans figured they could bully me, and demanded the three or four techs I had on them in an "or else!" deal. I gave them the finger and they declared war. I immediately struck alliances with the Germans and Zulu, and we proceded to smash the vast Roman empire back to four cities. My forces led the way for most of the battle, and before the war ended, I had developed tanks and aircraft as well, although the tanks were just starting to roll off the assembly line.

I was mulling the idea of striking a peace deal with the Romans, when the Zulus popped up and demanded a tech "or else!". I wasn’t quite ready to take them on, so I gave them the tech – but they had tipped their hand. I quickly treatied out of the Roman war and began redeploying and building up to take on my recent allies, the Zulus.

The AI was pretty transparent on this one. About 10 turns later the Zulu declared war out of the blue. Big stacks of cavalry came crashing around, only to be immediately gunned down by my tanks and artillery. I think in the first turn of the Zulu attack, I lost maybe two tanks to the Zulus’ 30 cavalry.

I allied with my pals the Germans again, and proceeded to reduce the Zulus to rubble in about 10 turns. All of their cities have been captured or razed, save one that is situated on a remote, 4-tile island way in the north. It’s funny. I just asked them for 20 gold (half what they have left) and a peace treaty, and they replied "Take your threats elsewhere. The Zulu do not fear your puny nation!".

Got to admire that. Transports now loading. Departure set for about 10 p.m. tonight. Doh!

	28-02-2002 02:17									#32
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization III: Complete

quote: Originally posted by belchingjester You've got to love when you accede to his demands for 17 gold (just b/c you don't feel like dealing with him attacking), and THEN he declares war. When I've played the Babylonians, however, he was attacking Bowmen with Archers. He lost. Triggered an early GA, but he was soon no more -belchingjester

Alas poor Bismark. Sneak attacked me and when his masses of warriors and archers died against my spearman, horseman and swordman units he decided to ask for peace. Took two tries since I was trying to use my new elite units to get a leader, but I gave up after awhile and finally made peace.

Next time I might keep fighting until I get a da-er, darned leader unit.

	03-03-2002 06:22									#33
	Remove this text

The Russians all the way! I simpy hate their condescending attitude. They also extort me, bully me and invade me at every opportunity. In my most recent game they always showed up, demanding money, luxuries or contact with other civs. I usually gave them what they wanted, but I made the solemn promise that one day I would skewer Catherine like the fat pig that she is. Now, hundreds of years later, my Panzers are on the move towards Moscow. Time to face your destiny, Cathy!

	06-03-2002 02:45									#34
	Avatar Enlargement: We've got the solution

I wonder if historical rivalries play a part in the formula. Someone mentioned that the Chinese are relatively peaceful and yet they attack the Japanese. I notice a lot of Russia-bashing from people who respond to their aggression with Panzers. Do you have trouble with France or England as well?

Maybe some kind of "Traditional Enemy" feature was coded in.

The Zulus have always been insanely aggressive, ever since Civ I. Maybe it's because Shaka Zulu was, well, quite insane himself in real life.

	07-03-2002 20:54									#35
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization: The Boardgame

Dunk - There might be some truth to that.

In my games, I usually try to pick those civs that are culturally and historically close. In one game where I was Egypt (others - Rome, Greece, Persia, Babylon, India, Zululand and Aztecs). Most of them were quite civil except for Greece and Babylon who were a complete pain throughout the whole game. Another one as England (others - France, Germany, Russia, Japan, India, China and America) with Japan and Russia being the usual enemy.

But to stay on topic, I loath Gandhi. He's a swindler and a ripoff merchant that expects half your empire in trade for any resource and is usually at the top or near the top in tech even when he's the smallest Civ on the map.

I've since swapped the Indian and French colours to make his UU look stupid.

	08-03-2002 01:46									#36
	Avatar Enlargement: We've got the solution

I do hate Zulu!!!
I can't play any game with Zulu!!!
As a builder, in my early age, I usually have no army in my city at all until the city has producted worker, temple and some settlers. Most civs are nice, though they walk into my city area but they won't try to take over my city even there is no army there at all. Only the Zulu, whenever they see there is a city without army, they will start war with me and take over my city!!!

	08-03-2002 02:06									#37
	Help yourself to an AD-FREE life

quote: Originally posted by easy I do hate Zulu!!! I can't play any game with Zulu!!! As a builder, in my early age, I usually have no army in my city at all until the city has producted worker, temple and some settlers. Most civs are nice, though they walk into my city area but they won't try to take over my city even there is no army there at all. Only the Zulu, whenever they see there is a city without army, they will start war with me and take over my city!!!

I tend to play peaceful builder style as well, but I gotta tell ya, the one time I discovered an AI capitol undefended in 3000bc, I whacked it, without a second thought! It worked out great too. At least throw a warrior in there. What's really annoying is when the AI sends a lone warrior to attack you, and it wins... game over. The Germans did that to me once, and since then I'm always concerned when they are trampling all over my land early on.

-Arrian

	09-03-2002 01:25									#38
	Avatar Enlargement: We've got the solution

For me:

Zulu- Aggressive and annoying Ancient Age enemies. If I find them I make sure they don't make it past the Middle Ages.

English- Extremely annoying, always embargoing me when at peace and dragging her allies into wars against me.

India- I don't think Gandhi has any concept of a fair trade. It's pretty much useless to try communicating with him.

	09-03-2002 05:07									#39
	Support Apolyton, buy Alpha Centauri

I can't stand French and Aztecs!

Aztecs when they are in one of my games they usally end up in war against me, maybe because i refused to give them my techs (and my Empire is maybe twice as big as theirs). They are incredible.... they hates me!

French because in any game I play they are always one of the top civs, when i' m at war with them they often manage to bring in the war against me lots of other civs, they gave unfair trades and I hate their pinky color !

I don't understand all your problemes with Zululand, they usualy are not in my games but when they are they are a little tiny puny civilization.... they are so cute

	12-03-2002 19:35									#40
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization: The Boardgame

Looking at the editor, I do see that there is "Favorite Government" and "Shunned Government". I wonder if civs who's "Favorite Government" is someone else's "Shunned Government" incurs a penalty when dealing with that civ. For example, the Germans shun Communism, while the Russians favor Communism. Maybe that's why the two fight.

	13-03-2002 20:46									#41
	Support Apolyton

England, I hate Elizabeth

	14-03-2002 10:04									#42
	Browse Apolyton AD-FREE

quote: Originally posted by dunk999 I wonder if historical rivalries play a part in the formula.

I would definitely believe it if there was some truth in this. I recently played a continent map as America. The Russians (my neighbours) refused to sign a peace deal for the 1500 game years we were at war until my tidal-wave of knights (and the Aztecs from their north) had crushed them to one city.

However, the next game I played as China, and the Russians were a lot more friendly towards me, though situations were similar to the previous game.

So, I'd definitely believe it.

As for annoying civs:

Russia - Just because they won't SHUT UP!

England - They are back stabbing. They used me to distract the Germans and Greeks while they snuck an attack on the Germans, then Elizabeth came crying to me when the Germans and Greeks attacked her.

Iroquois - Trying to live next door to both the Russians (see above) and the Iroquois with their mounter warrior was a pain-in-the-backside. I couldn't send workers out for nearly sixty turns!

Germans - "We want 10 gold" "Bugger off!" "Then it is war!" "Do we really have to? I had golf this afternoon."

	14-03-2002 13:03									#43
	Support Apolyton, buy Galactic Civilizations

I'd have to say the Romans. That guy is always winning by some hook or some other crook. I mean, they pretend to be honourable and all, but then BANG they hit you when you're not expecting it, all just to take some resource or other for themselves. One turn they're all peace and niceness, the next they have the Legions at your throat... Wait a minute... I usually play Rome...

Oh, did you mean most annoying for a HUMAN to play against... If only we could hear the AI talk to itself. Then again, we'd be nuts, right?

Salve

	16-03-2002 05:42									#44
	Support Apolyton, buy Call to Power 2

Me.

	16-03-2002 10:42									#45
	Support Apolyton, buy Call to Power 2

Off topic a bit, but do the various portraits give anyone else these impressions.

Rome, modern age portrait, he looks like a used car salesman who had a liquid lunch.

India, industrial age portrait, he seems to be saying "Want some candy little girl?"

England, industrial age portrait, though bubble above her "I'm sitting on a dildo"

Germany, any age portrait, Bismark looks constipated when he's smiling.

China, any age portrait, Mao looks stoned when he's smiling.

	16-03-2002 13:37									#46
	Support Apolyton, buy Galactic Civilizations: Deluxe Edition

quote: Originally posted by Qilue England, industrial age portrait, though bubble above her "I'm sitting on a dildo"

I'm not going to question a woman's take on another woman... Interesting picture.

But just what exactly is Alexander sitting on?

Salve

	20-09-2002 06:21									#47
	Lose 30 kilos (of popups)

i find the zulus annoying in the beginning like everyone else because of their UU....but so long as you dont' pick a fight until you can thrash them your alright....

bismark obviously uses roids...... but once my world map is out i will give it to him to shut him up ever few turns....

the greeks will attack me for no reason...so will the english and russians......

its the persians i fear the most..especially when i see those immortals coming....

however , one thing i have learned playing this game, and it can be applied across the board against any civ...

world map for world map and 18 of your gold (fill small amount here) will keep your enemy from attacking for about three to four turns min....

the other rule of course..is to get as many civs as possible to declare on the civ that attacked you, which usually isn't that hard to do......

of course what makes me scream, is when i get civs to join the war in my cause..then two turns later they backstab me and join my arch enemy

that just steals my goats

	20-09-2002 08:30									#48
	Inflate your Upload Space

If a civ with a dangerous early UU is next door, I like to snuff them out with a rush. Usually warriors.

	20-09-2002 15:26									#49
	Avatar Enlargement: We've got the solution

The Germans have never been any good in any games I've played except when I was them.

But the Babylonians.... yes Babylonians, are the most annoying for me. I had a game as the zulu i gave up on.... every time I would be near crushing and ending Babylon, one of their cities would flip on me, and my army would have precious swordsmen diverted from it to go retake the city. Eventually I did finish them off, but by then the war had exhausted me beyond hope.

Shaka can be very aggressive and demanding, but he is usually quite weak in the games I play.

And the Iroquois, it's kinna like bottom rail on top with that Hiawatha guy.... he always is breaking his treaties w/ me!!!

	20-09-2002 19:42									#50
	Support Apolyton, buy Alpha Centauri

The Babs can definitely be a major pain in the ass in the early going. Hammurabi is actually pretty aggressive, and bowmen, while not really fearsome, are hardy little fellows.

I just finished a game wherein I was attacked by the Babs (after refusing to part with my map and 20 gold), who pulled in the Zulu and Indians via alliances. I had a two front war (India never really showed up) going, with bowmen coming from the south and impi from the west. It was dicey for a little while, but I won, with a little unsolicited help from Persia.

The reason I hate the Zulu isn't because I fear them. Not at all. They are almost always weak. I hate them because they specialize in killing mounted units, particularly horsemen. Impi butcher horsemen. I love horsemen, and use them as my primary force. The Zulu force me to either:

Use shields to build a non-upgradeable slow unit (swordsman) instead; or
Wait until I have knights to kill them.

That irritates me. In the game I mentioned, the Zulu were the last AI standing on my continent. They outlived the Babs, Indians, Chinese and Persians, despite the fact that I was at war with them the longest. My samurai finally rid me of them around 1100AD.

-Arrian

	21-09-2002 00:18									#51
	Lose 30 kilos (of popups)

Babylonians, no contest.

	26-09-2002 02:46									#52
	Re: Most annoying civs to play against... Enter the AD-FREE zone

quote: Originally posted by Windwalker For me, it's those bloody Zulus... I'm playing a regent/continents/standard game, with 6 civs on my continent. English were at the top, I was below, Greece was below me, and Zulus and Romans at the bottom (Iriquois were to the left, at about the level of Greece, on a peninsula). Well, I took some early offensive action against England and took/razed about 4 cities, then sued for peace. I met the others, they were all fine for a while, until out of nowhere, Iriquois attack, and then the Zulus declare war. The iriquois sent about a dozen units to their deaths, and then sued for peace (though they were 2 HP away from taking one of my cities).  I hate the Zulus... Interesting game, though... - Windwalker

I like paying other nations to fight my enemies - it seems my first enemies attack soon after Map Making, since the AI trades all their techs for Maps, the tech costs are deflated, I hang onto my maps until someone declares war on me, and itheir still valuable enough to trade to the aggressors 2-4 neighbors for their aggreement to go to war. Later its important for the AI to have maps so they can trade with you.

	26-09-2002 12:17									#53
	Support Apolyton buy from Amazon

Wow, I am shocked that throughout this entire thread, the Japanese have not been mentioned once. They are the worst! And have been since Civ I! (Actually, the Zulus have been pretty bad since Civ I as well.)

No matter the game, it's only a matter of time before they come a-knockin'. Their entry into my territory is usually marked with three minutes of samurai movement.

Regarding the English, Elizabeth is the world's worst at being 'Gracious' while declaring war.

	29-09-2002 13:34									#54
	Support Apolyton, buy Alpha Centauri

my theory is...

smash them before they smash you and there's nothing to be annoyed about...especially that demon Bismarck! I also very much dislike...can u believe...India! That scrawny, smiling, peace-loving bastard Gandhi has betrayed me on several memorable occasions!

On the other hand, China and the Iroquois...friends for life!

	01-10-2002 03:02									#55
	zulu Support Apolyton, buy Civilization III: Complete

Please advise:
I am playing monarch level, large map, lots of islands or long thin continents. Zulu starts a war with me just when I was going to own my own continentn by polishing off 5 aztec cities in the south. Zulus are 4th in power, I am in the top 3 I figure. I have 2 cities with a toe hold (by accident, long story) on the Zulu mainland. Take my 14 cavalry away from Aztec land and ship them over to defend these 2 cities against Zulu hordes. I am a Republic. Zulu gets democracy and switches. Still wages war. Wave after wave of cavalry attack my 2 cities wiping out my 14 but cities still stand with 3 muskateers in each. Then with a fresh 10 cav I go to attack is nearest city which...suprise now has a rifleman defending it. (Somehow he got nationalism while at war 5 turns ahead of me...) So I paused the game and now need some advise. Do I restart? Go back 20 turns? Fight the Aztec instead. Any suggestion will be tried. One of the tactical elements is that when you follow his cavalry with yours it is hard to make it back to the City. Parked out in the open he butchers you (cav on the defense ain't so good in cav v cav). Also Zulu have brought in Germany against me and Rome! I enlisted Babs but how do you "see" if the babs are making any progress or even attacking the Zulu at all??

	01-10-2002 03:35									#56
	Get a bigger avatar today!

Post a SAV, fellow New Yorker.

	03-10-2002 02:11									#57
	i HATE persia!!!! Support Apolyton, buy Civilization: The Boardgame

god, i hate those green bastards. they're always surpassing me in technology, even when i'm doing REALLY good. they always seem to end up next to or near me, even when i have culturally linked locations turned off. they always end up declaring war on me, and demanding gold, resources and technologies. and somehow they're ALWAYS strong.

last night he declared war on me when i wasn't ready. i didn't build a good enough army early, AGAIN. i know it was my fault for not being strong enough, but it still blows. so he took 2 useless desert towns. he then proceeded to advance into my GOOD territory and almost wipe out one of my important cities. i finally convinced him to BACK OFF, and paid him a ridiculous amount of money for peace. during the war i had been mass-producing units, and i continued to do so until "compared to these guys, we have a strong military." i finally felt confident and started building banks and universities. i was ahead by two techs at that point - physics and theory of gravity. it was years later, and i was just waiting for him to discover something so i could trade physics to him and boost my income and get a new tech, when he called up and demanded it. of course i told him where to stick it and now i'm at WAR again! *whines* i don't WANNA be at war right now! he does this kind of crap to me all the time, and i'm sick and tired of it!!! (don't worry about the Second Persian War, i'll be fine.)

seriously, i don't know why, but it's ALWAYS persia that's the problem. i'm at the point where as soon as i see lime green on the map, i'm just going to bulldoze it from now on.

	03-10-2002 03:54									#58
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization: The Boardgame

I hate the english, even if they dont have the most cities or the most powerful militray, they always seem to be the biggest bully in the 16 player game.

The worst is when Egypt becomes a world power in my games.... at emperor, egypt once owned approx half of the world map, industrial age, units infantry and tank while most of us were using riflemen /calvary ( I was using calvary / infantry)

	06-04-2003 23:54									#59
	Support Apolyton, buy Galactic Civilizations: Deluxe Edition

I edit out France as a playable civ in my games. Screw that stupid French whore!

I used to think the Germans were a royal pain in the butt until I realized that they were very useful. They seem more than willing to concentrate on building a military while you tech like crazy as long as you are constantly pointing them towards another enemy or allowing them to pass through your empire to attack someone else. My last game consisted of me teching like crazy, and defending, while I sent my constant German allies (well, after I defended against their early attack and we were partners ever after) to attack my enemies.

I've noticed the Iroquois seem to be trustworthy, the Chinese are alright, and the Celts seem ok, but a lot behind the tech curve most of the time so I dunno what they are like when they are powerful.

My vote for most annoying is Lincoln. War-mongering cuss. We could have ruled the world together, but nooo, he thought a sneak cavalry invasion while razing my cities would be a good idea. Next thing you know 14 civs are aligned against him, all newly teched to a level above his own, and several travelling through my road/partial rail system to own him. I took the Hoover Dam (Boston) and then razed his last city (Washington).

Cleopatra is a close second though.

	07-04-2003 03:35									#60
	Support Apolyton, pre-order Civilization IV

From my experience, I despise the Russians, they are always so aggressive in the early game, and there is no game I start with them that they don't end up attacking me.

Same is said about Germany but I hardly get them as neigbours. They weren't so nasty in my last game until I wiped them out with a knight-rush... look ma' 20 new cities!

Greece is pretty obnoxious too, they are usually pretty weak and not much a threat but those Hoplites are a pain to take out, same I guess for Carthage although I have never had them as my neigbours.

And now, the BEST civ to play against is France. They have always been faithfull allies and never backstabbed me. Anyone who has edited them out must probably hate them for RL issues, not Civ issues.