02-03-2002 03:12									#31
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[QUOTE] Originally posted by Saint Marcus


Tell me, what do you think of Duke Alba? he was Spanish after all.[quote]

Duke Alba Ferdinand Alvarez De Toledo? I dunno about him... I do respect the current PM Aznar.

	02-03-2002 03:15									#32
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quote: Oh really? Oh really? Oh really? Than why didn't Nixon fire him?

A/ Because he was good
B/ Because of his prestige
C/ It was very late in his regime before he knew that Henry was screwing him. Its all in the history books Gian.

Please don't get started on Franco though, he was an arse, and a fine example of Spains proud military history (i.e a big fat moron).

	02-03-2002 03:19									#33
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quote: Originally posted by Evil Knevil A/ Because he was good B/ Because of his prestige C/ It was very late in his regime before he knew that Henry was screwing him. Its all in the history books Gian.

And I believe he forgave him for that. Regime? What are smoking?

quote: Please don't get started on Franco though, he was an arse, and a fine example of Spains proud military history (i.e a big fat moron).

I got evidence to disprove what you are saying.

The Spanish Economic Boom of the 1960s (Source Encarta):

The economy boomed because of rapid industrial growth and an extraordinary rise in tourism, as well as foreign investment in Spain and money sent home by Spanish workers abroad. Owing to a growing labor shortage, wages increased, unofficial trade unions were organized, and agriculture was mechanized rapidly to avoid high labor costs. Greater worker prosperity brought rapid social change: there was massive migration from rural to urban areas; secondary and university education expanded enormously; and the people became more secularized and sophisticated as their exposure to contemporary ways of life increased. The Franco regime, fundamentally pragmatic and technologically oriented after 1957, provided the framework within which growth could occur. The massive housing program the government sponsored greatly eased the social costs of Spain's transition from a rural to an urban society.

	02-03-2002 03:19									#34
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quote: Duke Alba Ferdinand Alvarez De Toledo?

yes, him.

quote: I dunno about him

And you call yourself Spanish? tsk, tsk.

	02-03-2002 03:20									#35
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quote: Originally posted by Saint Marcus yes, him. And you call yourself Spanish? tsk, tsk.

I haven't done enough studying about him. If I look into him I can.

If you are american, do you know every single president in the 1800s? It doesn't mean anything if you don't. So don't say "you call yourself Spanish". Shove it.

	02-03-2002 03:21									#36
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Yo! Evil!
Is there anything about you that isn't obnoxious? (i.e. your location and sig)

	02-03-2002 03:23									#37
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quote: Originally posted by SlowwHand Yo! Evil! Is there anything about you that isn't obnoxious? (i.e. your location and sig)

Edit: Never mind, you edited your post to evil... I agree it is. I deleted my sig, and changed my avatar to respect people.

	02-03-2002 03:32									#38
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quote: If you are american, do you know every single president in the 1800s? It doesn't mean anything if you don't. So don't say "you call yourself Spanish". Shove it.

I'm no American. And this does show you're not a real Spaniard after all. (surprise, surprise)

quote: Source Encarta

From the same source:

he enforced a policy of repression against all those who, in Franco's opinion, represented a potential threat to the new regime. Thousands of former Republicans were summarily shot or sent to prison while countless others suffered various forms of political and economic punishments.

In June 1940 Franco announced his intention to draw closer to the Axis powers. During his so-called summit meeting with Hitler in October 1940, Franco expressed his hope that Spain could assist in an Axis victory.

Franco continued to export raw materials to Germany, and he did not abandon hope of a German victory until defeat was certain in 1944.

Franco maintained control of Spanish society by suppressing all signs of regionalism, liberal politics, and left-wing trade unionism.

	02-03-2002 03:37									#39
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quote: Originally posted by Saint Marcus I'm no American. And this does show you're not a real Spaniard after all. (surprise, surprise)

How does it? And who gives you the right to say what I am or not? You impudent snob.... who gives you that right? Why don't you get off my back.

quote: he enforced a policy of repression against all those who, in Franco's opinion, represented a potential threat to the new regime. Thousands of former Republicans were summarily shot or sent to prison while countless others suffered various forms of political and economic punishments.

Good. Communists should not plunder the wealth of my counrty.

quote: In June 1940 Franco announced his intention to draw closer to the Axis powers. During his so-called summit meeting with Hitler in October 1940, Franco expressed his hope that Spain could assist in an Axis victory.

And that was his mistake. If he didn't attend the Germans would of invaded Spain.

quote: Franco continued to export raw materials to Germany, and he did not abandon hope of a German victory until defeat was certain in 1944.

He then switched to the allies... and became an ally of the US.

quote: Franco maintained control of Spanish society by suppressing all signs of regionalism, liberal politics, and left-wing trade unionism.

Good.

	02-03-2002 03:37									#40
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Well my appearance isnt obnoxious....

(looks in mirror)

Err... actually

Take is easy dude.


Gian, he meant me.

quote: And I believe he forgave him for that. Regime? What are smoking?

Possibly, but that still doesn't invalidate the point that he was untrustworthy. Also, I say regime, because he ruled the country like a thug, but I'm too stoned to argue about that.

As far as Franco goes, HIS economic policies went as far as labour camps and trying to maintain the price of the peso (through horrible interest rate rises). It was only when he started delegating a bit more that things improved. Even then economic growth was restricted by the regime through:

1/A bloated and expensive military, geared towards internal repression.

2/ Typical fascist power fighting, wasted resources etc

3/ Anti-masonic, anti-intellectual attitudes, which reduced Spains skilled labour.

4/ Banning socialists, others etc from working at all!

5/ High interest rates.

I could go on but Fraziers on the telly. My favorite example of Franco's stupidity in Economics is:

Having the Civil Guard watch the tourist beaches, arresting anybody who striped down too far for "public morality".

But don't press me, or at least start a different thread.

	02-03-2002 03:40									#41
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Okay. This is it. I am feeling my temper is starting to break. It is best I refrain from discussing this anymore.

	02-03-2002 03:41									#42
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Err, why? I'm not flaming at all, I even removed the Franco thing from my location as requested.

	02-03-2002 03:45									#43
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quote: Originally posted by Evil Knevil Err, why? I'm not flaming at all, I even removed the Franco thing from my location as requested.

Look, I am 17 and I go nuts sometimes (puberty I guess), I am trying to control that (and it is very difficult). But you are saying a lot of false things about me and my country. I also have a horrible headache that won't go away.

	02-03-2002 03:47									#44
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You're doing very well, G.

	02-03-2002 03:50									#45
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Slow:

Oh shut-up you bell-end.


Sorry if I've offended you Gian, but I'm entitled to my opinion. Also, I have a really sore head too, odd that... Try something with codeine in it?

	02-03-2002 03:54									#46
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quote: Originally posted by Evil Knevil Sorry if I've offended you Gian, but I'm entitled to my opinion. Also, I have a really sore head too, odd that... Try something with codeine in it?

Well, you are... and I respect that. But I don't think I am up to a debate right now. I had something called dulce de leche... ask any Argentine about it.. too much of it. Gave me a headache.

	02-03-2002 04:09									#47
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HILARIOUS!!!

Great to have you back Giancarlo!

quote: But you are saying a lot of false things about me and my country.

Not "your" country. You live in Argentina. Fruthermore, the stuff that is being discussed is long before your days. And you're not exactly an expert on Spanish history (don't even know who duke alba is. tsk)

quote: Good. Communists should not plunder the wealth of my counrty.

So it's ok to shoot them?

quote: If he didn't attend the Germans would of invaded Spain.

That's a joke right? Franco was a close ally off Hitler and Musolini. Franco believed in the Axis cause, and even if he wouldn't support the war Germany would not invade Spain.

quote: He then switched to the allies... and became an ally of the US.

No, he didn't switch at all. Franco was against the commies. During WW2, the allies were in league with the commies. So in reality, the allies changed, and Franco sided with those that opposed the communists.

quote: Good.

So surpressing certain elements of the population is good? I take it you're not a big fan of the US Constitution, or other laws that promote freedom and democracy? And I take it you don't want a democratic Iraq or Afghanistan, but rather a puppet dictator who serves the USA?

quote: How does it? And who gives you the right to say what I am or not? You impudent snob.... who gives you that right? Why don't you get off my back.

You always bash people who say things about your country, yet you yourself are hardly an expert on the matter.

quote: Look, I am 17 and I go nuts sometimes (puberty I guess), I am trying to control that (and it is very difficult).

With all due respect, puberty is not an excuse. Though I admire your efforts to control your temper. Hope it works this time, good luck.

	02-03-2002 04:16									#48
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quote: Originally posted by Saint Marcus Not "your" country. You live in Argentina. Fruthermore, the stuff that is being discussed is long before your days. And you're not exactly an expert on Spanish history (don't even know who duke alba is. tsk)

I will be blunt with you... I am good on anything that happened during the 20th century, my knowledge on any country before WWI is rusty at best.

quote: That's a joke right? Franco was a close ally off Hitler and Musolini. Franco believed in the Axis cause, and even if he wouldn't support the war Germany would not invade Spain.

Whatever.

quote: No, he didn't switch at all. Franco was against the commies. During WW2, the allies were in league with the commies. So in reality, the allies changed, and Franco sided with those that opposed the communists.

If I were choose between Franco and the communists... I would have to choose Franco.

quote: So surpressing certain elements of the population is good? I take it you're not a big fan of the US Constitution, or other laws that promote freedom and democracy? And I take it you don't want a democratic Iraq or Afghanistan, but rather a puppet dictator who serves the USA?

Look as I grow I older I am starting to moderate out. Now I support a party called the http://www.pp.es. I decided I am going to try to moderate myself in the upcoming months.

quote: You always bash people who say things about your country, yet you yourself are hardly an expert on the matter.

An expert? So I am idiot on everything and don't know anything? Well that is the way you are putting it.

quote: With all due respect, puberty is not an excuse. Though I admire your efforts to control your temper. Hope it works this time, good luck.

Thanks.

	02-03-2002 04:20									#49
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The "My Words are Backed by Nuclear Weapons" mug I got from the Apolyton store has new meaning...

all over again.

	02-03-2002 05:29									#50
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quote: Originally posted by CYBERAmazon It's my understanding that Soviet field commanders in Cuba had access to tactical battlefield nuclear weapons and had the option of using them in the event that U.S. combat troops came ashore. CYBERAmazon

He's right.
Check http://www.cnn.com/SPECIALS/cold.wa.../10/script.html

The Cubans had no control over them (this makes sence, after all do we want our allies to have control of the nukes in their territory?)

	02-03-2002 07:50									#51
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Regarding the early Cuban nuke, I saw the story on a documentary on TV a few years back. Aparently it was a gift from Kruschev. Man, what a charmer. IIRC the documentary was about times when we were on the brink of nuclear war.

The details escape me. Never a particularly good servent, my memory is far from infalable these days.

Last edited by Lancer on 02-03-2002 at 07:56

	02-03-2002 17:36									#52
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quote: Originally posted by Giancarlo "big Henry"? :LOL:

Not "big Henry," Gian. It's "think big, Henry."

	02-03-2002 17:40									#53
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quote: Originally posted by Urban Ranger Not "big Henry," Gian. It's "think big, Henry."

No, at the time I had something called a brain fart... meaning I thought of something else and wasn't thinking about that quote. Also Just making fun of the comma not being there...

	06-03-2002 02:01									#54
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I'm going to bump this thread for one reason

It was said no one wins a nuclear war.

Might I add the U.S. won the war in the pacific with nuclear weapons. Granted we were the only nation that had them. but N. Vietnam didn't have them. You could argue that USSR would have retaliated but I doubt that.

So what I'm asking would USSR have retaliated if the U.S. had nuked an insiginificant country like N. Vietnam?

and please get that child porn out of my thread

	06-03-2002 03:48									#55
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quote: Might I add the U.S. won the war in the pacific with nuclear weapons.

You had won the war long before that. You killed 300.000 innocent people just to show the world who's boss.

	06-03-2002 03:54									#56
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quote: Originally posted by axi You had won the war long before that. You killed 300.000 innocent people just to show the world who's boss.

Would you rather have had us invade them in order to get them to surrender? Because that is what it would have taken. 300,000 would have been nothing in the face of the probable outcome of that action.

	06-03-2002 03:56									#57
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Monneypenny has been watching pearl harbor

	06-03-2002 04:07									#58
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quote: Originally posted by paiktis22 Monneypenny has been watching pearl harbor

1) Stop trying to reverse roles on me, Monneypenny.
2) I've been reading from reputable historians, not watching Hollywood tripe.