08-03-2002 00:48									#91
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quote: Originally posted by Caesar the Great the entire world turns away for 1 year.... whoevers left there wins

I wholeheartedly support this plan. Anyone want to make a wager on the outcome? I think I have a decent idea of who the winner would be...

	08-03-2002 00:51									#92
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quote: Originally posted by Drake Tungsten I wholeheartedly support this plan. Anyone want to make a wager on the outcome? I think I have a decent idea of who the winner would be...

That will be great for the ZOG plans.
Not only we get rid of the security problems, but we also take over the oil supplies.

	08-03-2002 01:04									#93
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Israel should admit that terrorists cannot be defeated militarily.

They should swallow their pride (which is helping stoke the conflict) and negotiate 'under fire'.

Try to come to terms with the neighbouring states.

The sad truth is, that Israel has increased the chances of a second holocaust by earning the emnity of a fifth of the worlds population, and dislike by most of the rest.

	08-03-2002 01:19									#94
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since when terrorist can't be defeated militarily ?

anyway , I am glad that some on spits out the truth.

That's what you think of us .

maybe arabs could swallow their ****ing pride and allow us to live in this part of the earth peacefully and quitely ? that could be great ...

say , do you by chance believe that the holocaust was brought on the jews by themselves ?

	08-03-2002 01:45									#95
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Occupying territory and than demanding to live their quite and peacefully, most likly wont work, would it?

Tom

	08-03-2002 02:24									#96
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quote: say , do you by chance believe that the holocaust was brought on the jews by themselves ?

Of course not. But you obviously wish I did.

Israel has brought zero security to the Jews. It is not fulfilling it's purpose.

	08-03-2002 02:33									#97
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quote: Originally posted by Sandman Israel should admit that terrorists cannot be defeated militarily.

Your country did it in Malaya. Mine did it in the Philipinnes. Jordan and Syria have done it in the Middle East, and Algeria and Egypt aren't doing to badly either, although they haven't secured complete victory yet.

quote: They should swallow their pride (which is helping stoke the conflict) and negotiate 'under fire'.

If terrorism can't be defeated, why do the terrorists have any incentive to negotiate?

quote: The sad truth is, that Israel has increased the chances of a second holocaust by earning the emnity of a fifth of the worlds population, and dislike by most of the rest.

If it weren't for Israel, Jews in the Middle East would face discrimination and hatred just like Christians do today. Jews might still be languishing in refugee camps in Cyprus, and the Ethiopian Jews would be in terrible straits as well.

	08-03-2002 03:28									#98
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quote: Originally posted by Natan If terrorism can't be defeated, why do the terrorists have any incentive to negotiate?

While the methods are wrong, the Terrorist have a reason, a goal for which they fight (a free Palastine state for example?). This can only be reached by negotiating.

The argument, that there is no need to negotiate when u cant be defeated, implies that Israel will never have a incentive to negotiate? (I guess they have, cose they dont fear to be defeated, but want to stop the terrorist atacks).

	08-03-2002 03:33									#99
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quote: Originally posted by Dalgetti Mind you , the kingdom of Jordan is an artificial country. It's barely a geographical region. It's sovereignety is the product of pure imperialist goals of Great Britain , 'Divide and Conquer'. Do you agree that Israel has the right to exist a jewish state , with mosty equal rights ? Then can it defend itself ? thank you.

All states between Egypt and Iran are artifical constructions of this centuries Imperialist . You forget Dalgetti that it was the Biritsh imperialist who ignored the wishes of most locals and granted the Zionists a right to the land. (I am still puzzled by your attempt to mix zionism with Marxism, but anyway)

Israel has the right to exist as an equal with full equal rights, but what israel is doing right now is defending its occupation of anothers land, which only by extension is itself. Under the geneva conventions a populace under occupation has the right to opposed their occupation in any way: That does not allow for Terrorist attacks within Israel (green lines), which are undoubtedly a crime, but it does mean that the Palestinians should not be lumps wiating from crubs to fall of the israeli table.
'defending oneself' also does not allow for assasinations, collective punishment, economic sieges against civilains, and all the other things israel does. Israel's 'defending tself' seems much like India's defending itself in kashmir (at the cost of 60,000 lives in a decade and gross human rights violations) or Russia's defending itself (at the cost of hudreds of thousands of lives from 1994 and gross human rights violations), and then of course there was China defending itself from counterrevolutionaries in 1989 and ....

	08-03-2002 03:36									#100
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Alright. Terrorists can be defeated. But the method of war that is terrorism can't be. It would be like trying to 'defeat' guerilla warfare.

quote: If it weren't for Israel, Jews in the Middle East would face discrimination and hatred just like Christians do today.

The discrimination and hatred is now at arms length, but has increased in intensity. And it is now down to more than religious differences, but national differences as well. Nothing has been gained.

	08-03-2002 19:52									#101
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sandman, guerilla warefare can be defeated, of course.

quote: The discrimination and hatred is now at arms length, but has increased in intensity. And it is now down to more than religious differences, but national differences as well. Nothing has been gained.

Nothing has been gained? Well, allow me to disagree with you. now everyone that is considered jewish , somewhere in the world , cannot be hated. He will be protected by Israel.

much like the former brits in zimbabwe. ( no , of course , It's because of unfair elections, mind you that's why the only countries that supported suspending it from the commonwealth had majorities with european backgrounds )

GePap , mind you , I am also supportive of the Indian's cause in Kashmir , and Russia's cause in Chechniya. This is no case of emperialism. I have much more info on the case of Chechniya so I'll answer you this . The chechen 'freedom fighters' are a bunch of unhumans . I've seen videos of them slaughtering people : POWs , civilians... they're rtuthless , evil sons of *****es.

This actually applies to all islamic guerillas , have you seen the videos of the things that the Algerian Islamic guerillas do ?
the Chechens ? I know that this is the case with the palestinian arabs as well , and though I know nothing about India and Kashmir , If this won't be the same in the case of Kashmir , that would rather be the exeption , not the rule. Islamists represent pure savagery and unhumanness. Geneva conventions ? you better be happy if you die quickly .( I've seen lots of videos. TV, Internet.... .... )

quote: The argument, that there is no need to negotiate when u cant be defeated, implies that Israel will never have a incentive to negotiate? (I guess they have, cose they dont fear to be defeated, but want to stop the terrorist atacks).

the argument is : If you're a bully , and and can't be defeated , not only you won't negotiate , but you won't stop until you reach world domination.

mind you , the islamic terrorists are just that: they won't to take over the world .
one might say that the everage person who sympathises with their cause is not, but they certainly are.

quote: All states between Egypt and Iran are artifical constructions of this centuries Imperialist . You forget Dalgetti that it was the Biritsh imperialist who ignored the wishes of most locals and granted the Zionists a right to the land. (I am still puzzled by your attempt to mix zionism with Marxism, but anyway)

during the time the zionist movement has begun , the local population was unrelevant to the equasion, because of it's minute size.

A sizable chunk of the jewish people followed the jewish nationalism. They did it after they saw the failure of the 'enlightment' in europe. Even after they tried to mix and mingle with society , became secular , and even supported the nationalistic causes of the respective nations in which they lived, they were outcast , and suffered from antisemitism, for various excuses , some 'theological' , other 'evolutionist'. When giving you two great examples of the things I am talking about , were the Dreyfuss case in France , a country that was then one of the leading , if not the leader in aspects of cultural achievements. Well, apparently , they weren't all that 'freedom,eqality,brotherhood'. . The courageous Emil Zola , is a great exeption. He's also a great writer.

In Russia, a retard european country those days , not only antisemitism wasn't considered wrong , the authorities not only turned a blind eye to the killing and looting of jewish communities , but also occasionally supported them. The intellectuals as well. All te members of the writers' assosiation have refused to sign a pettition condemning the crimes.

so that's the background to Zionism.

quote: Israel has the right to exist as an equal with full equal rights, but what israel is doing right now is defending its occupation of anothers land, which only by extension is itself. Under the geneva conventions a populace under occupation has the right to opposed their occupation in any way: That does not allow for Terrorist attacks within Israel (green lines), which are undoubtedly a crime, but it does mean that the Palestinians should not be lumps wiating from crubs to fall of the israeli table.

noone said that they should be waiting for crubs. But the palestinian population isn't actually under Israeli control no more.

quote: 'defending oneself' also does not allow for assasinations, collective punishment, economic sieges against civilains, and all the other things israel does.

sure it does. That's called war. A war in which we defend ourselves.

quote: While the methods are wrong, the Terrorist have a reason, a goal for which they fight (a free Palastine state for example?). This can only be reached by negotiating.

well no. they can fight their way , destroy all the Israelis on the territories . They're invincible , right ?