18-04-2002 12:45									#31
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quote: Originally posted by Tuberski I gave it a 3. I haven't considered Sid Meier a game god like a lot of people do. That all left me with SMAC. I wasn't expecting, nor was I hoping for something SMAC-like. I got a game that resembled Civ 2, just as Civ 2 resembled Civ 1. Cry all you want about how they didn't change enough of it compared to Civ 2. Do you REALLY think there is much difference between Civ1 and Civ 2? No more of a difference than between Civ 2 and Civ 3. They are ALL Civ 1 with 2 and 3 having some changes, but the basis for the game hasn't changed.

Come on, Tuberski... The difference between Civ1 and Civ2 is bigger than the difference between Civ2 and Civ3. Civ2 was a great step forward, Civ3 is one step forward and two steps back

	18-04-2002 12:49									#32
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quote: Originally posted by Coracle Is it possible that almost all the many people who were great critics of the game, such as Libertarian, are now busy doing other things having given up on it?? Damn straight. Only the gullible are left.

Damn right they are...just look at the stats

	26-04-2002 04:56									#33
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Civ 3 rules... love it! I will be hard-core and do multiplayer games on Small/Standard Maps over days! =P Down with the silly complainers! booo!

btw, if you're going to quote Chomsky, you might as well not quote something lame and unbelievably self-hating and un-American... oh wait.. n/m... he has none of those quotes.


Civ1: 500+
Civ2: 100+
MoO: 200+
MoO II: 200+
SMAC: 100+
Darklands: 300+ (doh, that's out of genre, oh well...)

	26-04-2002 11:58									#34
	Best game ever!!! Remove this text

Just wanted to say that! A roaring 4!!

	26-04-2002 21:57									#35
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quote: Originally posted by Ironikinit Four stars, no-brainer. I've played pretty much the whole Civ series and its offshoots such as Colonization and SMAC, but not CtP or CtP2 which never interested me.

No offense, but I think this is why you give it 4 stars ....

So much about CTP2 is better. I suspect there was a large backlash to a non-Meier civ game which caused CTP 1 and 2 to lag in sales and interest.

Public Works (instead of workers) and stacking armies alone make me like it better. Plus more units.

The whole tedium with dozens of workers is too much.

	26-04-2002 22:52									#36
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I gave it 2.5 stars because of lack of MP and senerio ability. Maybe someday Civ3 will catch up to the modded CTP2.

	27-04-2002 03:22									#37
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I honestly think that these posts have been far to plentiful, what it boils down to is if you like it great, keep on playing...discuss strategy etc. If you don't like it, then move on, try something new, but don't continue writing about how the game could have been better. If you want to be proactive in making a game better, switch to CTP2 or go back to Civ2. When or if Firaxis gives Civ3 more modding ability, then you can come back and try it again. I for one think that Civ3 is an excellent game, it is more challenging than Civ2 and has some very good new ideas.

	27-04-2002 03:46									#38
	you people Support Apolyton, buy GURPS/ Alpha Centauri

Now i'm probably going to get yelled at for this, but Civ3 is a much better game then Civ2(dunno about Civ1, never played it). It expands apon things, includes some good things from SMAC, and breaks new ground. Its harder then Civ2 was, the AI is better, wars are MUCH more funner. And the list goes on. I don't know what some of you were expecting, but I expected something along the same basis of Civ2, but only better. Which is what we got. Sure, theres not alot of mods but most of my civ games have been normal(besides for fantasy/sci-fi ones in test of time). It could use a few more things to make it perfect, just like Civ2 could of. But right now(as of the latest patch) it is quite enjoyable and playable. And all those who keep going "CtP2 is better", why are you frequenting a civ3 forum? Go sing praises on the CtP2 one.

Civ2=Probably about 300-400 hours
SMAC-SMACX=200 hours or so
MOO2=100 or so
MOM:50 or so
Civ3:About 50-75 so far, and yes I have played it to completion several times. I think the biggest problem some have is all there old strategys from Civ2 don't work, and its not near as easy as Civ2 was.

	27-04-2002 03:50									#39
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[QUOTE] Originally posted by ChaotikVisions
Now i'm probably going to get yelled at for this, but Civ3 is a much better game then Civ2(dunno about Civ1, never played it). It expands apon things, includes some good things from SMAC, and breaks new ground. Its harder then Civ2 was, the AI is better, wars are MUCH more funner. And the list goes on. I don't know what some of you were expecting, but I expected something along the same basis of Civ2, but only better. Which is what we got. Sure, theres not alot of mods but most of my civ games have been normal(besides for fantasy/sci-fi ones in test of time). It could use a few more things to make it perfect, just like Civ2 could of. But right now(as of the latest patch) it is quite enjoyable and playable. And all those who keep going "CtP2 is better", why are you frequenting a civ3 forum? Go sing praises on the CtP2 one.
QUOTE]




how dare you say that about Civ2 and CtP2. get out CtP2 is the greatest game ever created. Even though only a few thousand people actually bought the game, and even less play it now, it is far superior to any Sid Meier title. SLiC RULEZ!!!!

	27-04-2002 04:23									#40
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3.5

Insanely great game, with some interface problems which will probably get fixed. Firaxians, please read the recent suggestions in Killazer's thread.

For the record: Empire, Civ1, Civ2, and SMAC all at waaay over 100 hours.

	27-04-2002 04:46									#41
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asleepathewhell: I didn't say CtP2 was worse or better then Civ3, I just said Civ3 was better then Civ2. I've never played CtP2 and never had much of an urge to, so I can't pass judgement on it.

	27-04-2002 04:49									#42
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quote: Originally posted by ChaotikVisions asleepathewhell: I didn't say CtP2 was worse or better then Civ3, I just said Civ3 was better then Civ2. I've never played CtP2 and never had much of an urge to, so I can't pass judgement on it.

I know, I was just being sarcastic.

	27-04-2002 17:28									#43
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quote: Originally posted by centrifuge I honestly think that these posts have been far to plentiful, what it boils down to is if you like it great, keep on playing...discuss strategy etc. If you don't like it, then move on, try something new, but don't continue writing about how the game could have been better. If you want to be proactive in making a game better, switch to CTP2 or go back to Civ2. When or if Firaxis gives Civ3 more modding ability, then you can come back and try it again. I for one think that Civ3 is an excellent game, it is more challenging than Civ2 and has some very good new ideas.

good point But there was a lot more whining a few months ago... Coracle and Jimmytrick is the only ones that aren´t fed up with whining yet...

	27-04-2002 17:38									#44
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quote: Originally posted by ChaotikVisions Now i'm probably going to get yelled at for this, but Civ3 is a much better game then Civ2(dunno about Civ1, never played it). It expands apon things, includes some good things from SMAC, and breaks new ground. Its harder then Civ2 was, the AI is better, wars are MUCH more funner. And the list goes on. I don't know what some of you were expecting, but I expected something along the same basis of Civ2, but only better. Which is what we got. Sure, theres not alot of mods but most of my civ games have been normal(besides for fantasy/sci-fi ones in test of time). It could use a few more things to make it perfect, just like Civ2 could of. But right now(as of the latest patch) it is quite enjoyable and playable. And all those who keep going "CtP2 is better", why are you frequenting a civ3 forum? Go sing praises on the CtP2 one. Civ2=Probably about 300-400 hours SMAC-SMACX=200 hours or so MOO2=100 or so MOM:50 or so Civ3:About 50-75 so far, and yes I have played it to completion several times. I think the biggest problem some have is all there old strategys from Civ2 don't work, and its not near as easy as Civ2 was.

Well I´m particulary fond of Civ2, and I must say that Civ3 HAS some very redeeming features. But then there is some features that are just plain stupid (even if they´ve been rectified to some extent in the latest patch). With the latest patch the game went up just a notch, but it still isn´t quite up to Civ2 standard yet. Not to mention SMAC-standard...

	27-04-2002 17:40									#45
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Oh, and excactly which concepts from SMAC do you see in this game...

	27-04-2002 17:42									#46
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Oops. Higher is better?

Ok. Three stars then...

	27-04-2002 22:24									#47
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quote: Originally posted by Kamrat X Oh, and excactly which concepts from SMAC do you see in this game...

the jackal.txt

also bombard units. civ2-cannons el all could attack and capture. smax the similar units could just destroy improvements and knock down hp, but not kill. (i'm right on this, aren't I?)

	27-04-2002 22:58									#48
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quote: Originally posted by asleepathewheel also bombard units. civ2-cannons el all could attack and capture. smax the similar units could just destroy improvements and knock down hp, but not kill. (i'm right on this, aren't I?)

You are essentially correct (although I could wish for counterbattery fire and artillery duels). In CIV2, I would wait for howitzers, then send in an army of engineers and howitzers to buld RRs and sweep through the enemy. The 1 turn overrun is born. Artillery in CIV2 was too dominant.

	27-04-2002 23:17									#49
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Hmm, just off the top of my head bombarding units and civ(faction in SMAC/SMACX) special traits. Admittedly in SMAC they were different, but its mostly along the same principle. Like Prokhovs science trait, Santiago's military trait, etc.

	28-04-2002 01:52									#50
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quote: Originally posted by asleepathewheel the jackal.txt also bombard units. civ2-cannons el all could attack and capture. smax the similar units could just destroy improvements and knock down hp, but not kill. (i'm right on this, aren't I?)

Yes, you´re right. I forgot about those...

	28-04-2002 01:56									#51
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quote: Originally posted by Kamrat X Yes, you´re right. I forgot about those...

I agree with your main point though, that there were a lot of interesting ideas in SMAX that could have been included in Civ3 but weren't.

	28-04-2002 02:49									#52
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Yeah, what I really would have liked would´ve been a sequel to SMAC.

Picture this: some refugees from Chiron crash on a uninhabited but hospitable planet and stripped of most of their equipment they´re forced to rebuild civilization from scratch.

Not only can you then get a new spin on the whole Civ-thing, you also get the logical follow up to Civ2 and SMAC/X. In essence a continuing saga of human perserverance and stamina.

If they´ve kept Brian onboard and developed the SMAC-concept further and merged with the good ideas from Civ3 THAT would have been the greatest game ever made IMHO.

	28-04-2002 06:59									#53
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3.5

quote: Originally posted by Sava Overall, Civ 3 is a huge disappointment.

Even i dont think that its to flash but with the mod its
pretty good come on just because u have to change some stuff doesn't make it bad
and i enjoy a game which you can change to your own prefrences.

crazy a list btween 1 and 4

	28-04-2002 07:24									#54
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2.5

Pre-1.21 I would have given a 1.5, but things like lethal bombardment in the editor, better AI (builds riflemen over longbowmen now), and all the other little things that I can't remember right now but make it a lot more fun to play can somewhat redeem it.

	28-04-2002 23:09									#55
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I've just finished my first 1.21 game (monarch, continents, default rules). I still won but it was much tougher. Trading was a pain so I was lucky to not require any resources from the AI. I consistently had to trade 2 luxurys plus cash for 1 from the AI (that seems way out of balance). The AI still cant use arty but the naval battles were better.

If this game had been sold instead of the beta version I would have given it a 3 or maybe a 3.5 instead of the 2 I originally gave it.

	04-05-2002 23:21									#56
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quote: Originally posted by centrifuge I honestly think that these posts have been far to plentiful, what it boils down to is if you like it great, keep on playing...discuss strategy etc. If you don't like it, then move on, try something new, but don't continue writing about how the game could have been better. If you want to be proactive in making a game better, switch to CTP2 or go back to Civ2. When or if Firaxis gives Civ3 more modding ability, then you can come back and try it again. I for one think that Civ3 is an excellent game, it is more challenging than Civ2 and has some very good new ideas.

I don't see what is so innapropriate about posting on a thread thats very topic is "how do you rate this game" by answering honestly, whether positive or negative.

That said, None of us "CTP2" fans are disputing that CivIII is improved over CivII. It does indeed have good ideas and I would play CivIII over II anyday.

Still, certain additions to the game would've made it even better (i.e. army stacking, etc). Nuff said.

Now go play

	05-05-2002 00:34									#57
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I gave civ a 2.5

its fun, but has proiblems, (a notable one is that a 3HP tank attacked and lost against a 2 HP swordsman in the last game i played, and the fact that i lost a dozen or so infantry, to OTHER infantry in signle combat)

i like the AI, and i enjoy the diplomacy. i don't like the way research plays out (have to trade to stay up) and i think that they made the lower levels too difficult as well. (non-hardcore civers seem to have problems).

	05-05-2002 05:23									#58
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quote: Originally posted by ChaotikVisions And all those who keep going "CtP2 is better", why are you frequenting a civ3 forum? Go sing praises on the CtP2 one.

Boy, the civ3 fans must feel threatened by people who want to compare civ-style games.

... they must be afraid that some civ3 loyalists might actually decide to give Modded CTP2 a try and decide it is actually better.

Personally, I think the freedom to make comparisons on threads like these are a good way for the informed player to make a choice, one way or another.

We all like to be informed, don't we...weighing the pros and cons of each game in reasoned debate. And with a constant influx of newbies, all of which have differing viewpoints about civ3 both pro and con, there is always the need to keep the debate fresh and vital.

After all, its just a game.

Long live free and open discourse!!!!

	05-05-2002 09:07									#59
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well, Civ3 is not really mod-friendly as "the other game" but its not THAT bad either. If there is a way to implement a better combat system it would be improved by a mile. In "the other game" you could just click on a "bombard" button in a stack and all units with "bombard" ability would attack automaticly....
Combat its where it hurts the game most...all the other things I can live without but don't take away combat from me...

	05-05-2002 09:54									#60
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Personally, I think Civ 3 is okay. Compared to other games, it's not very deep at all, and tries to make up for that by including as many aspects of a strategy-civ-building game as possible, and comes up short in nearly every one of them. I rarely find the motivation to continue a game much after 500AD for some reason... I just don't feel like playing it anymore. However, it breaks new ground in a variety of areas, and who knows, Civ IV might just be "the one" ... I give it a 2.5.