26-04-2002 20:24									#61
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quote: Originally posted by Oligarf You don't have to explain that. But that fact offers a new aspect, important in the real world, called time. I can fight several wars at once in CIV not having to bother about time. In real life that's not the case.

No, but as President you can appoint Generals to run each theatre of operations. Thats where TBS and RTS part the ways. In TBS you can play President, Chancellor, Admirals of the Pacific and Atlantic fleets, Generals of the Pacific, Western and African theatres simultaneously. In RTS you can only be one of those things at a time and the artificial game skill is in knowing which one of them most needs your attention at any given moment.

In games where your own side has no AI to speak of and you have to run everything personally TBS produces more sensible results than RTS. Now if MOO3 lived up to its early promises of having AI's run things while you decided where to spend IFP's to interfere and take personal control, we might be seeing a new evolutionary step in defining the level of personal control you can exert in a game.

	11-05-2002 16:45									#62
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In my opinion the growth of and prospering of a civilization is for a part dependent on the people that live in that civilization. It's maybe a slightly other discussion but in Civilization several entities are fighting each other, I never have the feeling that millions of people are battling. Yes, I think it would be wonderful to assign generals, ministers, professors and so on. That you are really dependent on how you educate your people, how much you allow free science. To increase the impact of the Golden Age with genius Generals, brilliant Scientist. But maybe that not what is ment with Civ, I hope it will be so someday.

	31-05-2002 08:56									#63
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I voted for turn-based.
I don't see how a real-time strategy could fit a blocbuster category. May be, because, turn-based is associated with such serious games like chess, where you have to think so much, that your brains start aching. And real-time is associated with childish games with animation and colourful images.
Even if you make Civ3 black and white and void of animations I wouldn't mind playing it again and again.

	31-05-2002 20:58									#64
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any of yous think you should get a 3rd map option?
option 1: Terrortory
option 2: Land scape
option 3: Unit placement
would save us from spending 30 mins trying see if we have any units in babylons terrortory before we declare war on them! Would also decrease turn times.

	01-06-2002 19:22									#65
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A little revival all of a sudden of this thread apparently:
Dervish:
Don't know, C&C, AOE, not that bad I think. But you have a point with chess etc.
HazieDaVampire:
Could you explain what you are saying there?

And about the voting till now 50% thinks that Civ could become an online blockbuster and 50% thinks that rts could help, but those groups are both divided, interesting...

	01-06-2002 19:28									#66
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you know in the mini map on the botton left of the screen, you have two veiwing options, Terrortory is default, and you can press that button so it turns into terrain veiw, well they should add a veiw that tells you where all of the veiwable units are. So you don't spend a while trying to see if you have a unit in sombodys terrortory (so that nobody gets pissed at you declaring war while you have units in the enemys terrortory). It'll just speed things up, and let you see an entire front line and stuff like that.

	01-06-2002 23:11									#67
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understood

	02-06-2002 20:51									#68
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Just a thought though:

What about using passwords n stuff for the all mp-games in civ3
then you could schedule your games, and take a break to do other stuff (like go to work )
I suppose password/save will be available for civ-per-email games...but why not take this an implement it in PTW as an option?
however - that's just my two cents worth

edit:
oh - I voted civ=tbs - because I believe civ as rts is impossible, and civ as rts will ruin the concept of civ. errr....something like that

tbs on the internet will take up hours and hours - as sp does today - not all civ fans will be able to be online for hours and hours every day...thus saving and passwording will be a neat feuture for mp-games

"Like a mighty castle, our friendship will survive. Even though the very heavens rain...err..big rocks down upon it"

Last edited by Paalikles on 02-06-2002 at 20:56

	02-06-2002 20:51									#69
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well, what do you think of my idea?

	02-06-2002 22:49									#70
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HazieDaVampire:
It would be a nice feature for the game in general, also for the SP, it could help MP.
Paalikles:
TBS will take an enormous amount of hours, we have talked here about permanent running games where people could log in and out. A password system could mean something for such a game. The computer could take over when someone leaves for work or school.

Does someone know if there is some news about the MP of Civ III Firaxis will release?

	02-06-2002 23:24									#71
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it really would be sweet to have an on-going game, but i bet people will more than likley attack you when your not there. I think on-line scenarios will be more of a success on-line, cuz you'll already be in the age, and they'll be shorter, things like WW2. WW2 is probubly going to be them most popular with so meny civilisations involved!
Like Axis:
Germany
Italy
Japan
+ Anybody who desides not to go with histroy
and Allies
England
France (France officialy turned Axis and owned half its country still, but had lots of resistance).
Holland (i think)
Norway (Not sure)
Russia (But i bet sombody playing as Russia desides to go Axis).
China (kinda allied, they're enemys of Japan, and are friendly towards America)
America (only joined the war when the tide began to turn, but if the German player showers America with goodies, the American players probubly gunna pull back on declaring war).

This also brings me to another off topic subject, anybody think we need a Nazi style government option? (i'll start a new thread about it!).

	02-06-2002 23:26									#72
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oh, and the large countrys should be played by either low skilled players, or by more dedicated players (Sombody who won't screw about and mess things up)! And smaller countrys should be played by more skilled players (They want a challenge don't they!).

	02-06-2002 23:37									#73
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Important for scenarios is, how to fill them. Every scenario will have one or two favourite civs and how to fill the rest is a question, so I don't know if that will help.

	02-06-2002 23:58									#74
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In a wwii scenario - it will be difficult to find some way to add resistance-movements in the countries occupied by Germany
BTW - Norway was occupied by Germany, but was initially "neutral".
A ww2 scenario - built to make turns count as months/weeks or days will be interesting - and if possible, one could include as much as 24 civs (on a huge map...) and have the most impressive MP game ever!
(Though I find it hard to belive that ANYONE would manage to make such a game...)

My thoughts on the map issue: good idea - though not entirely related to this thread

My thoughts on civ becoming a blockbuster:
Provided that the short types of games end up working as described (like Regicide etc) - these games will hopefully be filled with enough action to attract civgamers.
MP through a LAN network or similar - will make room for longer games - which may probably go on for days for that matter

What I do believe people are worrying about:
*Speed problems (connection)
->hopefully there will be a server fast enough to cope with PTW
*Time spent on a single mp-game
->Will probably vary with the different game-types

I'd say Civ3 has the potential to become a great mp-game

	10-06-2002 02:33									#75
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I totaly agree with you Paalikles, therefor I feel very sorry that fans of the game are not always that enthusiastic about this idea.

	10-06-2002 02:42									#76
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i wouldn't mind playing as a small country, like Greece. They were hit heavily by the war, rome (italy) would of course have to pay if they do the same as what they did in the real WW2!
In the scenario edittor we would also need the ability to change 1 units atributes, so Germany can have its Bismark, and the other nations can have their own units with extra power of some type!

	10-06-2002 03:04									#77
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Indeed sounds interesting, but I still think that it will be a problem to get enough players for the minor powers in scenarios.

	10-06-2002 17:31									#78
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No, it won't.... the only games that become successful online are RPG's, FPS, and RTS... turn-based games are just too boring for the majority of online gamers.

	10-06-2002 21:46									#79
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yes, the waiting to grow part, that can take 5 mins in SP, will take 30 mins in MP.
Thats why i think scenarios will work best, your already at the time of the expected action.

Last edited by HazieDaVampire on 11-06-2002 at 22:31

	11-06-2002 07:43									#80
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I hate to say it, but I can't see such a complex game like civ being embraced to the point of "blockbusterdom" (if that's a word)

	11-06-2002 09:47									#81
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quote: Originally posted by nostromo I never understood why so many people think that turn-based games make poor multiplayer games. After all, chess is an amazing multiplayer game!

I'm sorry but I can't help laughing at your audacity! Why don't you go ahead and compare Chess to solitaire while you're at it!

	11-06-2002 22:29									#82
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Jpww, he's comparing them cuz civ3 and chess are games where you take turns (cept in civ you move all your units, not 1).

	11-06-2002 23:13									#83
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MP works great for EU2 and CTP2 plus it worked well in Civ2 so I don't see why it wouldn't work in Civ3. I found the timer in CTP2 helped keep things moving at a good clip.

	11-06-2002 23:18									#84
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if they do make a timer, it should give you more time later in the game. cuz you'll have loads of units by then!
Maby a time thats like 'move somthing in 5 seconds, or i'll skip the turn you lazy *&^%£%' type timer!

	11-06-2002 23:45									#85
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In CTP2 they have something called "speed cities" where you get more time the more cities your Empire has. It works very well.

	12-06-2002 00:27									#86
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i see

	12-06-2002 00:32									#87
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quote: Originally posted by HazieDaVampire Jpww, he's comparing them cuz civ3 and chess are games where you take turns (cept in civ you move all your units, not 1).

Thanks Hazie. Some people seem to think that turn-based games are, intrinsically, not suitable for multiplayer games. Chess, I think, is an obvious counter-example: it's a turn-based game and it's a great multiplayer game. So the fact that Civ is a turn-based game doesn't explain, IMO, why it doesn't work very well as a multiplayer game. If you ask me, the main reason why Civ doesn't work very well as a multiplayer game is the the length of typical Civ games. That and the waiting between turns.

	12-06-2002 00:44									#88
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i've givin out LOADS of ways to save time, and make the times between turns fun!

And the typical length of civ games is why i want really good on-line scenarios with every civ being played as a person, kinda like re-writting history in WW scenarios!

I'm planning on making a WHOLE WORLD WW2 scenario, with every civ being used! and if i can get good at the scripting, i'll make a SP one too! Anybody know a good world map on the LARGEST map size (editor size, not default game sizes!), and possibly with a slightly larger europe!

	12-06-2002 01:22									#89
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quote: Originally posted by HazieDaVampire i've givin out LOADS of ways to save time, and make the times between turns fun!

Yes, you have. And they were good suggestions. It seems however that the new turnless mode will completely eliminate the waiting time between turns.

quote: Originally posted by HazieDaVampire And the typical length of civ games is why i want really good on-line scenarios with every civ being played as a person, kinda like re-writting history in WW scenarios! I'm planning on making a WHOLE WORLD WW2 scenario, with every civ being used! and if i can get good at the scripting, i'll make a SP one too! Anybody know a good world map on the LARGEST map size (editor size, not default game sizes!), and possibly with a slightly larger europe!

Try Marla's earth map.

	13-06-2002 08:36									#90
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Sorry, nostromo. I don't know what got into me
As a wise man once said: where are my meds??!