14-03-2002 18:20									#31
	Full PM-box? Change here!

quote: Originally posted by adamsj I agree with -Jrabbit! You as cabinet members should if necessary, (your decision) to go for be of flexible!

But where is the necessity?!? Where's the need for flexibility?!? How many morons are there that can't make a difference between numbers 7 and 8???

Necessity is when Gramphos needed to make a poll between mathematics and polytheism, due to the ambiguity of the previous results. Not on this poll!

Pleeeeeease!

	14-03-2002 18:46									#32
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(The citizenry wander through the wilderness after 1000 years of arguing over where to put their capital.)

(Barbs attack)

Let our leadership lead! In reality, those elected do as they see fit (or as they please) once elected. In reality, the voters control only who will control their fate.

After all, Zealot, it's only a poll. Your chance to offer your wisdom, nothing more.

BTW, the closest we come to a rule on this matter is at
http://apolyton.net/forums/showthre...&threadid=42289
which deals with tied polls.

The fact that defensive units were included in the final poll (along with all the N-C units) shouldn't bother anyone.
BUT IT REALLY ANGERS ME THAT THEY WERE LISTED FIRST! Everyone knows that ballot positioning is the key to victory! Omigod, kassiopeia must have an evil agenda! We must inform the President! but wait, he wasn't even elected to that post! Can we trust him? Whatever shall we do??!??!!????!!!!!???


(relaxed and happy citizens after government-issued drugs are administered)

	14-03-2002 18:59									#33
	Full PM-box? Change here!

quote: Originally posted by -Jrabbit After all, Zealot, it's only a poll. Your chance to offer your wisdom, nothing more.

I'm not offering nothing, I'm exposing dual criteria from a minister, who is giving a chance to a defeated proposition in a second poll. Fortunatly, diplomats, a non-military unit, are winning. But if a military unit was winning, I wonder is that poll could have any legitimacy or not! That is my whole point!

quote: Originally posted by -Jrabbit BTW, the closest we come to a rule on this matter is at http://apolyton.net/forums/showthre...&threadid=42289 which deals with tied polls.

You give me a link to a thread where I expressed my oppinion, got the support of the military minister, where neither you nor kassio expressed your oppinions, and when this poll isn't tied?

I'm sorry but I have to ask this:
What's your point?

	14-03-2002 19:16									#34
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quote: Originally posted by -Jrabbit (relaxed and happy citizens after government-issued drugs are administered)

What do you think is growing in the Hanging Gardens?

	14-03-2002 19:30									#35
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(-Jrabbit compliments Zealot on his appropriate screen name.)

FYI, I wasn't involved in this game when that poll was taken. You asked a question, I did a little research to try and answer. Trying to be helpful.

If I have a point, it's that there are hundreds of tactical decisions to be made, dozens of strategic approaches to be considered. And we're arguing over polls.

After all, how many units have been built in how many of our cities with no consultation whatsoever? So it's foolish to get hung up on this tiny issue.

You've made you point. The new poll is out there. And something will happen.

April is coming. Better to run for office and change things that way.


*(points out Zealot to Minister of Tranquilizers)*
*(Minister does his thing.)*

There now, Citizen Zealot, don't you feel better? Isn't it nice when we all get along?

	14-03-2002 21:13									#36
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quote: Originally posted by Zealot You give me a link to a thread where I expressed my oppinion, got the support of the military minister, where neither you nor kassio expressed your oppinions, and when this poll isn't tied?

VOILA here you have a poll without ambiguity.
(in case of a draw I'll Flip a Coin )

SO ALL OF YOU GO VOTE FOR THE NEW VICE

Shade

	15-03-2002 01:29									#37
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an option doesn´t need to be over 50% to win a poll

the advisor has to say to the minister not his opinion, he has to say the option which won the poll

in case of tying the minister decides

	15-03-2002 01:47									#38
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quote: Huh, excuse me, but what is inconclusive about this poll? N-M units won, so the next poll will only include N-M units! What-is-so-hard-to-under-stand?

1. Are you the City Planner?
2. If so, did you make the decision of the poll structure and what should be in them?

Both questions ought to turn out answered "no".

This is just a single poll - and can be ignored as an example in the future - the original confusion with the diplo being possibly listed in the voting options as a combat unit made me decide on adding the military units, this backed up by the fact that the two options were very close both.

The Game of Democracy is just taking it's first steps, and we should allow it to have it's leeways and bloopers every now and then. Of course, this was no accident; and I must remind you that the two options were very close, and that the earlier mishap with terminology might of caused it to take place.

I have no "hidden agenda" to lobby the military. I was not pressured to add the defensive units; you as a citizen should be satisfied with the fact that I as a Minister even bothered to ask for the kind of detailed opinion in poll #2.

I could of simply made the conclusion out of this single poll - something I did not do, since there was a possible confusion with the "militaryness" of the Diplomat unit. I was merely attempting to accomplish my task in performing a democratic and just government.

Besides, if the voters don't act exactly the way you want them to do, then too bad.

Zealot, if you wish to take care of City Planning, feel free to nominate yourself for the next election - as I have posted before this whole rubbish started - I will not run for a third period.

-jrabbit, adamsj - thanks for your support.

- Kass, your Minister of City Planning

PS. We can go on on polling and polling, but in the end, that kind of a democracy is not the effective or the quick one. This is more like a representative democracy, not a direct one, though we are thriving for the latter.

	15-03-2002 04:16									#39
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quote: Originally posted by kassiopeia Besides, if the voters don't act exactly the way you want them to do, then too bad.

Ironicly, I was within the majority on this poll, those who voted for a non-military unit to be built in New Castellon. You were the one who completely ignored the outcome, and mixed up both military and non-military units in the same poll.
I find it amazing the times I've already repeated this.

quote: Originally posted by kassiopeia Zealot, if you wish to take care of City Planning, feel free to nominate yourself for the next election - as I have posted before this whole rubbish started - I will not run for a third period.

I never said I would make a better advisor than you. What I've been stating over and over again is that you broke the rules by ignoring the outcome of this poll, and disguised some "better defence units" in them! And that is totally unacceptable!

quote: Originally posted by kassiopeia PS. We can go on on polling and polling, but in the end, that kind of a democracy is not the effective or the quick one. This is more like a representative democracy, not a direct one, though we are thriving for the latter.

I think you did very well polling for this specific case. We are really near an enemy city, and you proceded the right way. Once again, what really pissed me off was that you made a poll for nothing, since the poll "finale" included again what had been polled here: Military units, and Non-Military units.
In this specific case, the diplomat is, most surely, going to win. But if you didn't have built a poll with those military units in them, perhaps all of those votes could be canalized into, for example a settler (or caravan), and then we would have 9 votes in a settler and 10 in a diplo, when at this moment the poll isn't closed, and the outcome could be different. This is the dimension of your mistake.
I hope you learned from it.