12-03-2002 10:57									#61
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We buy all of our cars through a dealership which has an agreement with my dad's company. We get all of the cars at cost + $500. It's definitely amazing at the difference between that and the sticker price.

	12-03-2002 11:02									#62
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The only time you should pay MSRP (much less dealer sticker!) is for a supe hot car that no one can get. A nickel over invoice is good, but still not the best.

	12-03-2002 11:03									#63
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Where else do you get cars? Used?

	12-03-2002 11:05									#64
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I sell new and used, all makes and models, pretty much.

	12-03-2002 11:17									#65
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One of my cousins has done some family research and in the 7 generations since my father's family arrived in this country (before 1820!) there have been all sorts of extremes of wealth and poverty. We've had cattle barons and even a railroad and mining entrepeneur (great, great Grandfather Hugh) then we've had drunks and gamblers that lost the lot Australia is a boom and bust country.

The thing that strikes me is how prosperity or poverty affects the following generations. I look at what I'm accumulating now as very much for my kids (or the divorce settlement, he he). Otoh, my parents were conservative but I think they should enjoy what they built up.

You might be interested to know Sneak that the first of my ancestors here was a Patrick and the newest arrival of the seventh generation is a Patrick. We didn't know that when we named him

	12-03-2002 11:21									#66
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That's because you named him after his father...er...I mean...me.

Lots of Pats in my family as well...we're lousy with Micks.

	12-03-2002 11:27									#67
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That's interesting too - at different stages in the family tree has been protestant. It was really marriage that determined religious affiliation.

I have seen the only photo ever taken of my Great Grandfather - its an old sepia job, from before world war I. He's standing in a garden with a fruit tree and a picket fence, next to his wife, my great grand mother. She is frowning at him and standing slightly behind him. He is clearly pissed out of his skull

	12-03-2002 11:28									#68
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quote: Originally posted by SuperSneak I agree...while it may be the habit of the poor to say the rich suck, I think it is somewhat true. Here's a little story to illustrate my point: I went to what is now (but was only marginally so then) the pre-eminent college prep school in the state of Oregon. We were made up of about half super rich kids (Nike founder's kids, car dealers, surgeons, old money, magnates, etc.) and the other half suburban middle class (me and my friends). When we were all freshmen (9th grade) we didn't know the difference really. But when you go hang out at your new pal's house and his laundry room is bigger than your home, you start to see the divisions real quick. The night of our "alchohol free" senior party, a bunch of us po' people hung out in a nearby park and drank some beers. We waited in the parking lot for the buses that would take us all to the group event. Up rolls a really nice chartered bus and off pile, to a man, every rich kid in our class, totally bombed and faced. One of the wealthy fathers had sponsored a kegger for the upper crusters. Three things stuck in my mind from that night: 1) if anyone was visibly intoxicated, they were to be immediately villified and sent home. Not one of these extremely drunk jerks got in trouble. The frustration of administrators who relied on hefty contributions from these guy's dads was very apparent. 2) The guys, loosened by the booze, heaped all sorts of derision and abuse on the poor kids standing there as they got off the bus. 3) If you had cash and donated it, your kid played sports. I spent an entire freshman baseball season on the bench, backing up the much lamer guy who's dad's produce company's sign happened to suddenly adorn our outfield fence. I was an all-state All Star the year before. I have long been a believer that division in this country and in this world, runs along class lines, not racial ones. As long as we believe the bs that racism keeps us down and apart, the wealthy are safe. Look at Enron and those scandalous *******s who soaked their workers and stockholders. My company was shut down as a result of some of that crap...bam...200 blue collar workers on the street. I have no love for those who love money.

Well some of us, while preferring to eat off the good china and with silver spoon in hand, Perrier-Jouet flower bottle champagne flowing like water, still have a sense of noblesse oblige.

Just remember: The rich do as they will, the poor do as they must. Money = power. Power to abuse, if you've got enough and that's your thing, or power not to be abused. Or to be a ****ing bleeding heart do-gooder and help other people.

I've known some people who at different points in their lives were in living situations which no human being should have to tolerate, but because of their economic situation, or lack thereof, they had to endure what would normally be unendurable. Money may not buy happiness, but it sure as **** buys a much greater degree of self-determination.

By the way - I used to specialize in beating the living **** out of those kind of kids.

	12-03-2002 11:37									#69
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quote: Originally posted by SuperSneak Yeah...you've got to be an all day sucker to buy on a lot...unless you are hardcore and have all your facts and rebates and low interest rates lined up. I agree...while it may be the habit of the poor to say the rich suck, I think it is somewhat true. Here's a little story to illustrate my point: I went to what is now (but was only marginally so then) the pre-eminent college prep school in the state of Oregon. We were made up of about half super rich kids (Nike founder's kids, car dealers, surgeons, old money, magnates, etc.) and the other half suburban middle class (me and my friends). When we were all freshmen (9th grade) we didn't know the difference really. But when you go hang out at your new pal's house and his laundry room is bigger than your home, you start to see the divisions real quick. The night of our "alchohol free" senior party, a bunch of us po' people hung out in a nearby park and drank some beers. We waited in the parking lot for the buses that would take us all to the group event. Up rolls a really nice chartered bus and off pile, to a man, every rich kid in our class, totally bombed and faced. One of the wealthy fathers had sponsored a kegger for the upper crusters. Three things stuck in my mind from that night: 1) if anyone was visibly intoxicated, they were to be immediately villified and sent home. Not one of these extremely drunk jerks got in trouble. The frustration of administrators who relied on hefty contributions from these guy's dads was very apparent. 2) The guys, loosened by the booze, heaped all sorts of derision and abuse on the poor kids standing there as they got off the bus. 3) If you had cash and donated it, your kid played sports. I spent an entire freshman baseball season on the bench, backing up the much lamer guy who's dad's produce company's sign happened to suddenly adorn our outfield fence. I was an all-state All Star the year before. I have long been a believer that division in this country and in this world, runs along class lines, not racial ones. As long as we believe the bs that racism keeps us down and apart, the wealthy are safe. Look at Enron and those scandalous *******s who soaked their workers and stockholders. My company was shut down as a result of some of that crap...bam...200 blue collar workers on the street. I have no love for those who love money.

here here

Jon Miller

	12-03-2002 12:28									#70
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By the way - I used to specialize in beating the living **** out of those kind of kids.

In vicious, no-holds-barred games of chess, right?

	12-03-2002 12:51									#71
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Nope - like I told someone once, I've removed more teeth than most dentists.

Although I could kick their ass at chess, too.

	12-03-2002 19:13									#72
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I'm probably middle middle-class. You don't get any nigher than that in Salford.

	12-03-2002 19:16									#73
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Yeah, my threads seem to be popular lately

I love how MtG and AH post in here, it adds a lot of prestige to my threads

Though it's a pity PH or Siro haven't cried so far.

I didn't know Lefty was that rich but then he's not that much of a regular

Luckily Boddington's hasn't been spamtrolling this... yes

Last edited by Ecthy on 12-03-2002 at 19:21

	12-03-2002 19:19									#74
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what am I saying, there we go

	12-03-2002 19:26									#75
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quote: Originally posted by Ecthelion what am I saying, there we go

	12-03-2002 19:31									#76
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Posting drunk again, Stewart?

	13-03-2002 03:25									#77
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i hope all yall are moral, good people (ahem... AH...)

	13-03-2002 04:26									#78
	HEY MTG! Got spare money?

you know its illegal to ship in "goods" when you go to work don't cha? That would explain the money though!