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VJ
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Helsinki
Dec 2001
time: 07:18
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quote:
Originally posted by Kamrat X
(..)I demand a return to the borders of 1658! |
I demand a return to the borders of 1920!
EDIT: No! Scrap that!
I demand a return to the borders of Hitler's secret plans in 1940! 
All the way to Ural!
quote:
Didn't Russia effectively order Finland's foreign policy? Finland was Finlandized. Didn't do anything to upset Russia.
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This goes way back to -68 presidentual elections...
Kekkonen vs. Honka. Kekkonen was highly known Soviet buttlicker then,
and would not been winning those elections. But, something like 2 weeks before
the elections, Hrustststsev calls for 'Help' against BDR. Incredible amount of fuss.
WW3 speculations started. Kekkonen goes all the way from Hawaii to
Moscow to talk from this 'defence attack'.
They talk about 2 hours, and simsalabim, ww3 has been stopped, Finns don't have to attack against
west, Kekkonen is the world saver! After that, Kekkonen was voted over
80 % landslide against others in all the elections he was in
(1968 to 1981, when he got some disease and died after).
Well, since 1960's to lat 80's there were major buttlicking line in politics to avoid
Soviet Invasion. Buttlicking stopped when Gorba came.
Confused? So am I.
USSR -39 disaster was mainly the result of crappy leadership.
Last edited by VJ on 23-03-2002 at 01:14
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Andemagne
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Rovaniemi, Lappland, Finland
Dec 1999
time: 07:18
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quote:
Originally posted by Adalbertus
No. Worse. AFAIK, there are really three different ethnic groups (or four?) in Finland, Finns, Swedish, Lapps, and perhaps a sizeable fraction of Russians.
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As far as I know there is no swedes living in finland,
some finnish people just speak swedish. all the
russians living in finland are tourist. 
about the lapps, they are small minority and are mostly
mixed with "finns", Hell! I partly Lapp myself.
and NO, finland is better of without russia.
(but they could give Karelia and Petsamo back to us )
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Serb
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Siberia, Communist party of Apolyton
Nov 2001
time: 11:18
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quote:
Originally posted by Hurricane
First, the Mannerheim Line was not "the best fortification of that times". Far from it. It was just a line of scattered bunkers and trenches. What made it so hard to penetrate was the favourable terrain for defence, thanks to the large number of small lakes.
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With minefields, somethimes with 40 lines of barbed wire instead of usual 2-3 lines, with 2 meters bunkers walls made of concrete and another 2,5 meters of rocks beynd the bunkers walls and very favourable terrain. Do not insult people who created this line, it was very good fortification complex.
quote:
Second, the Finnish army was NOT defeated in 1944. The Russians were in fact completely stopped, at the battle of Tali-Ihantala.
The Russians understood that the Finnish army had a lot of power left, and with the race for Berlin taking priority, Soviet decided to let Finland sign a peace with them. Finland was the only Axis country who did not capitulate, and was neither occupied at any time. |
Agreed, I should used words "drived out of the game", not "destroyed". As you said, Stalin realised that Finns have power left, and defeat of Finland was not the prime goal, race for Berlin was much more important.
Last edited by Serb on 25-03-2002 at 15:46
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Serb
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Siberia, Communist party of Apolyton
Nov 2001
time: 11:18
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Tuomerehu,
Follow the Hurricane's link to teach more about the Mannerheim Line http://www.mannerheim-line.ru/
The Finland's campaign last only 100 days, it is impossible to create such fortifications in such short time. The Mannerheim Line was constructed ealier with help of Brits, French and Germans if I remember corectly.
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Hurricane
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Arctic Hill
May 2001
time: 07:18
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quote:
Originally posted by Serb
With minefields, somethimes with 40 lines of barbed wire instead of usual 2-3 lines, with 2 meters bunkers walls made of concrete and another 2,5 meters of rocks beynd the bunkers walls and very favourable terrain. Do not insult people who created this line, it was very good fortification complex. |
From www.winterwar.com
quote:
So at the end of October 1939, when the war started, the actual Mannerheim Line had in the area between the Gulf of Finland and Vuoksi, some 80 km wide, 55 concrete fortifications (20 of them built in the 1920's and not repaired/modernized during the 1930's) and in the Vuoksi-Suvanto-Taipale area, some 55 km wide, 26 concrete fortifications (all of them built during the 1920's). If the concrete fortifications had been dispersed evenly along the line, the distance between two of them would've been over 1,5 km, i.e. roughly 0.6 concrete bunkers / km. |
Also note that the Mannerheim Line was not used as the main defensive line during the continuation war. Instead, a new defensive line (the VT-Line) was built, and it was here that the battles of 1944 were fought.
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Serb
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Siberia, Communist party of Apolyton
Nov 2001
time: 11:18
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Hurricane,
You are amazing. In your previous link there was absolutely different information. For example, that Red army take more then 140 bunkers during this campaign.
You may continue to say stories about weaknes of Finn's fortifications or about Stalin wanted to conquer Finland or about anything else. Those stories good for Americans and etc. You forget that those events are part of our own history and we study them to. I've read few books about Winter war and I'm disagreed with your position.
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22-03-2002 17:11
Until the middle of the 12th century, the geographical area that is now Finland was a political vacuum, and interesting to both its western neighbour Sweden and the Catholic Church there, and its eastern neighbour Novgorod ( Russia) and its Greek Orthodox Church. Sweden came out on top, as the peace treaty of 1323 between Sweden and Novgorod assigned only eastern Finland to Novgorod. The western and southern parts of Finland were tied to Sweden and the Western European cultural sphere, while eastern Finland, i.e. Karelia, became part of the Russo-Byzantine world.
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