26-03-2002 11:02									#31
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David scares me

JOn Miller

	26-03-2002 11:04									#32
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I'm a scary person - don't try mugging me, I wouldn't advise it

	26-03-2002 11:08									#33
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Who'd be scared of a cripple?

	26-03-2002 11:09									#34
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***** come find out

	26-03-2002 11:14									#35
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I used to be pretty good with my crutches.

	26-03-2002 11:22									#36
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My legs aren't broken - thai kicks can be a real *****

	26-03-2002 11:26									#37
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Bah. I'm gonna build a Titan II and point it at David's house.

	26-03-2002 11:28									#38
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Go for it, fortunately I control the Legions of Terror, and they'll **** you up before you can launch

	26-03-2002 12:32									#39
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KrazyHorse - why waste the time and/or money. Come to US, buy a small hand gun, go blow DF's head off. That's just the way he would want it.

	26-03-2002 12:36									#40
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I'd be arrested as a terrorist and executed on the say-so of a military tribunal in a closed session. Wonderful country you guys have down there.

	26-03-2002 12:37									#41
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What country is your avatar, by the way? I can't identify it.

	26-03-2002 12:39									#42
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quote: KrazyHorse - why waste the time and/or money. Come to US, buy a small hand gun, go blow DF's head off. That's just the way he would want it.

First he'd have to locate my secret lair, beyond the Mountain of Death, guarded by the genetically engineered creatures of destruction (+4).

	26-03-2002 17:47									#43
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No. actually with 2.7 million Americans using a weapon in "DGU" every year ( according to Mr. Kleck ), all we have to do is wait for some fine upstanding citizen to decide that DF's a mugger and then draws down on him. DF will undoubtedly respond in kind, so either he gets shot or he shoots someone, necessitating a little government sponsored "time out".

	26-03-2002 18:17									#44
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As a total outsider (ie non-american, ie primitive barbarian ) I do have to say that the american constitution has passed the test of time pretty well. That doesn't mean that it's in any way is perfect or hasn't a number of potential flaws (we all know the peoples right to gun-problem). It has also inspired a bunch of other constitutions like the ones of Iran or Ho Chi Minhs constitution for Vietnam (notice the irony).

The strenght and weakness of a constitution is that is not strong enough to stand for itself. There's a lot of important things that not taken care off. The right to vote was for example at first only a right for white, male landowners.

A constitution should be considered for what it is, the general policy that should influence a lands laws and regulations. It should not be seen like the answer for everything in itself but as a framwork.

	26-03-2002 20:52									#45
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quote: Originally posted by MacTBone . Just because it says that everyone has the right to happiness

It does not. You must be thinking of the "pursuit of happiness" in the declaration of independence.

	26-03-2002 21:53									#46
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There's nothing about people having the right to happiness. It would be communism If people that weren't part of the political and economic elite could be happy!!!

	26-03-2002 22:09									#47
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quote: Originally posted by Kropotkin It would be communism If people that weren't part of the political and economic elite could be happy!!!

"happy" apprently meaning "equally miserable"...

	26-03-2002 23:36									#48
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quote: What country is your avatar, by the way? I can't identify it.

It's Germany before WW1.

	27-03-2002 01:44									#49
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The U.S. Constitution -- that mystical document.

But seriously now, I would like to bring up an interesting historical example of how Southern states systematically violated the Constitution after Reconstruction.

The 15th Amendment states:

Section 1. The right of citizens of the United States to vote shall not be denied or abridged by the United States or by any State on account of race, color, or previous condition of servitude.

Section 2. The Congress shall have power to enforce this article by appropriate legislation.


The Southern states passed literacy laws, poll taxes, and the grandfather clause law in order to violate the law of the 15th Amendment.
Southern politicians felt that these tactics of denying blacks the right to vote (as well as poor whites), would work as loopholes. And they did work until the 1960's.

	27-03-2002 01:45									#50
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quote: Originally posted by KrazyHorse I'd be arrested as a terrorist and executed on the say-so of a military tribunal in a closed session. Wonderful country you guys have down there.

Terrorst? For killing Floyd?? That's the kind of thing that makes you worthy of a statue

btw: as Imran said, it's pre-WWI Germany.

	27-03-2002 01:49									#51
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quote: Terrorst? For killing Floyd?? That's the kind of thing that makes you worthy of a statue

Especially if you were FBI .

	27-03-2002 02:13									#52
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quote: No. actually with 2.7 million Americans using a weapon in "DGU" every year ( according to Mr. Kleck ), all we have to do is wait for some fine upstanding citizen to decide that DF's a mugger and then draws down on him. DF will undoubtedly respond in kind, so either he gets shot or he shoots someone, necessitating a little government sponsored "time out".

If I shot someone who drew a gun on me I'd go to jail? Eh? Since when?

	27-03-2002 05:43									#53
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Since we apparently have some people who believe in the Bill of Rights as if it were a holy book, I would like to make one very large point.

The US government is for the *people*.

The Bill of Rights is not a person, therefore it is not the be all and end all for everything to do with the US. We cannot always look to it for guidance, although it does contain extremely useful advice for some things. Ultimately though, this government is shaped by the will of the people. The people elect representatives, and if there is not a worthy representative, it is their own fault for not correcting the situation. I do not believe that the framers were meant to be looked on as dietys either. That was not their intention, and we should not try to justify an interpretation of the Bill of Rights, because "that's what the framers meant".

The US is not a religion, and the Bill of Rights is not a Holy Book.

Blind allegiance to anything is counter intuitive to any progress.

	27-03-2002 05:46									#54
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quote: Originally posted by WhiteElephants Since we apparently have some people who believe in the Bill of Rights as if it were a holy book, I would like to make one very large point. ... Blind allegiance to anything is counter intuitive to any progress.

What the heck?

Are you trying to pull a MrFun on us here, WhiteElephants?

	27-03-2002 06:03									#55
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--"The US government is for the *people*."

And, since this didn't get through the first time, the Constitution is the charter, by the people, granting the federal government power.

Understand?

Let me add that if the government can't be bothered to obey its own rules, why will anyone else?
Aside from superior firepower on the government's part, of course. I really don't want to go back to "might makes right".

--"That was not their intention, and we should not try to justify an interpretation of the Bill of Rights, because "that's what the framers meant"."

Actually, yes it was their intention. It's called the doctrine of original intent, IIRC. The Constitution means what it says. If it needs to be changed, it can be amended, as has already happened several times.

There was just this odd notion of the founders that the government should not be able to place itself above the law...

Wraith
Math illiteracy affects 8 out of every 5 people.

	27-03-2002 06:36									#56
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quote: Originally posted by loinburger What the heck? Are you trying to pull a MrFun on us here, WhiteElephants?

I was just mimicing the first post thinking MacTBone would be stomping up and down if anyone were to think of the Bill of Rights in the same way as he thinks of the Constitution. Meaning if his arguement doesn't apply to one, then it obviously doesn't apply to the other.

Wraith -- I know. It was satire.

	27-03-2002 06:42									#57
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quote: Originally posted by WhiteElephants I was just mimicing the first post thinking MacTBone would be stomping up...

Good. I thought you were either pulling a "Hey, I'll bet you people haven't read this post, so here's the same goddamn post all over again!" or a "The ideas in this post are my original ideas, I swear!" Both would be bad habits to get into.

	27-03-2002 06:46									#58
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I've got enough bad habits already.

	27-03-2002 06:52									#59
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The US consitution is the supreme law of the land. All of the Federal government's power comes from it. All US actions must be in compliance with the constitution or it's illegal. Now, for an argument on whether gun control would be effective it would be wrong to point to the constitution. But in deciding whether gun control would be legal, as in with deciding if any law is legal, it must be in compliance with the Constitution.

The US constitution was written based on the Lockean ideal of democracy. Lockean democracy first and foremost recognizes the rights of the individual come first and that you should not be hurt just because an arbitrary majority of the population says so. We have rights irrespective of what groups of people want, and those rights should be honored.

	27-03-2002 07:15									#60
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quote: Originally posted by loinburger What the heck? Are you trying to pull a MrFun on us here, WhiteElephants?

You can stop your trolling, Loinburger since I do not play troll games.

I do not post the same points repeatedly, unless it is clear that people still do not understand what my arguments are.