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Stuff2
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I suggest we limit wonders of the world to actual buildings. Also i'd like to see wonder in these categories:
- Stone age (everthing earlier than 1000 BC)
- Classic (1000 BC to 500 AD)
- Dark age (500 AD to 1000)
- The mideval age (1000 to 1400)
- The Renaissance (1400 to 1600)
- The enlightment (1600 to 1800)
- The industrial revolution (1800 to 1900)
- The automobile era (1900 - 1975)
- Modern (1975 - 2050)
- Future (2050 - 2100)
Some of the names are not suitable but i think you get the picture.
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I think this list of eras is far to ethnocentric.
What you consider the dark-ages were dark ages only in Europe, but not in other parts so calling it dark-ages isn't quite the correct for this era (anyway what big wonders are supposed to be built in dark ages? none, that's why they are dark). The dark ages aren't something avery civ has to go through after the classic period.
I think the eras we have are enough. I wouldn't even introduce a "Bronze Age" before Antiquity, if you imagine how much mesoamerican cultures could do without metalworking, a Bronze-Age doesn't make very much sense.
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Comrade Dan
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Kaiser Wilhelm II In Training.
Nov 1999
time: 17:12
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Damn! Leonardo's Workshop is the only wonder I buld in Civ! (unless everyone else is far behind, then I also build Manhatten) And I don't really wanna continously build units when my city defenders get out of date!
Seriously consider the ramifications for some players when you scrap Leonardo's Workshop!
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Lonestar: You're really to fixed to US. West Point, Chaco-Canyon, Morill Act, VMI(?).
1.)West Point: A friendly reminder to US-guys, your Marines get beaten every year at the worldchampionship for special forces by Chinese and Austrian and several other nations. US have supreme warfare-technology but the training is nothing better than anywhere else, so: NO West Point (I'm sure the Chinese have something like West Point too, we only don't know its name)
2.)Chaco Canyon: I'm sure the Anasazi were good at irrigation but so where many other peoples (Egyptians?!?). And of course Chaco is a settlement again and I repeat: NO settlements as wonders
3.)Morill Act: Never heard about that one. I could say "The Gloeckl Reforms" probably the austrian correspondent to the Morill Act. You can imagine your imaginative parlament setting up the Morill Act (and I imagine the Gloeckl-reforms)when you decide to build more Universities in your cities but it's definitely no wonder.
The US have enough real wonders (SoL, HD, maybe Mt.Rushmore, WTC and others), we shouldn't overamericanize the game
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Green Go!
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Vrank Prins
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Haarlem, Netherlands
Sep 2000
time: 05:12
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Hello Dark Cloud hear my plea for the VOC-wonder.
The remark Evil Capitalist made about it was rather poor.  That's about the same as saying all the antique Greek wonders or achievements are of no significance because later on they were overpowered by the Romans.
Maybe his aversion against "India-company"wonders comes from playing CTP. CTP has the East India Company wonder which has the effect of 5 gold for each foreign trade route crossing water and increased boat movement. The effect of the VOC could be likewise, minus the movement effect.
Though I like the effect of it, I kind of dislike it because of this.
The E.I.C. was organized (with all its own adjustments and modification) after the example of the VOC, as were the Hudson Bay Company and other early colonial enterprises in other countries (f.i. France, Denmark). CTP just ignores the fact that the Dutch were the first ones to organize a trading-company in such a way and very succesful. It is also unique because it actually was the first corporation in history. The Italians developed banking, the Dutch the corporation. In the 17th century, the Dutch century as I may say so, you could trade your VOC-shares everywhere. The VOC is the most significant example of the renewed trade and colonial development of that time.
Microprose has made a more multi-cultural mix of wonders in CIV-II than in CIV-I. Why not put in a dutch one, and the VOC really is of major historical significance!!. If Firaxis does so, they will show to have a better sense and understanding of historical development than Activision does. I hope they won't be likewise anglo-american or anglo-british focused.
[This message has been edited by Vrank Prins (edited September 29, 2000).]
[This message has been edited by Vrank Prins (edited September 29, 2000).]
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Ribannah
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The Netherlands, Embassy of the Iroquois Confederacy
Aug 2000
time: 06:12
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quote:
Originally posted by DarkCloud on 09-29-2000 10:38 PM
Interesting history about the VOC, however there is a reason why I do not believe the East India Company or the VOC is suitable for Civ III.
And that is they are tangible and are companies. However they rely more on other nations than their own for their significance.
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I don't see why this would be an argument against the VOC. Many Civ 2 wonders rely on other nations, often more so than the VOC: the Great Library, the Great Wall, Marco Polo's Embassy, Darwin's Voyage, Magellan's Expedition, etc. After all, no civilization in our history was ever alone in the world. (Btw, there could never have been a Hoover Dam without building on Dutch knowledge, and the same will hold for a Cure for Cancer.)
The VOC is a product of the Dutch civilization from an age when the Dutch were leading the world and since the Dutch thrived (and still thrive) on trade, most appropriate to be chosen as a wonder - even though there are different options, for example Rembrandt's "Nachtwacht" and - a little later - the "Kinderdijk" mills. The VOC is also a landmark in human history as a whole.
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If you have no feet, don't walk on fire
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Interesting...but my views have not changed since entering ACS nearly a year ago...
There are enough wonders as is!!!
I do apologize for not having enough time to read everyone's posts. But I will state my general and humble opinion about wonders...
Please, PLEASE think about giving these "wonders" as rewards for being the first to discover a tech!!! It really does make a lot of sense to me.
You're the first to discover flight. You and everyone you have contact with get a message about the historic first flight of the Wright Brothers. Your civ now recieves 1+ movement with all air units. Does not expire.
You're the first to discover oh I don't know...navigation. You get - Magellan's Expedition! Everyone you know recieves a message about Magellan's voyage around the world. Your ships recieve a +2 bonus.
lets go with something non unit related...
You're the first to discover...Theology. You recieve - you guessed it...J.S. Bach's Cathedral. And then everone you know yak yak yak. Your cities recieve +1 happiness.
It's so simple!! You can apply that to a WHOLE BUNCH OF WONDERS!!!
Certain wonders however have to stick as something you build.
Examples include the Pyramids, Lighthouse, Great Wall, United Nations, Women's Sufferage (if that even sticks, i never liked it), Great Library...etc.
Please someone post about this...say you love it, say you hate it! I don't care, just reply. Thanks! 
(I've been debating this for 6 months now, no one ever seems to respond to it. If everyone hates it, that's fine. But at least I'll know )
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"One day I will become a master at every woman's favourite game,'Guess what I'm upset about'" ~ LatG
"Dookie doesn't spam, he just makes funposts" ~ Dookie
"I duct taped myself to the wall" ~ Fallen Angel Lord
"You have a dangerous degree of obesssion with modern chivalry" ~ EvC on Speer
"um...Geez, I don't know. I'm mature for my age or something?" ~ Bill3000
"It's a good bunch here!...better than my miserable social life in Hull" ~ Provost on Apolyton
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i've already said that somewhere before: don't make locations wonders. change "easter island" to "moai", that's how the natives called the stone monuments.
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23-09-2000 19:51
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