17-07-2002 04:26									#91
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I played on King. I retried and abandoned twice because I lost Marsuttan, then managed to win on King with the Teutogoths. I saw that Marsuttan is almost mandatory to win. Then, I tried at Emperor. I knew a few things beforehand, but basically the strategy I chose works fine there too. I attach a log again, and this time I won . There is only one time at which I would have lost (?) and decided to reload. It is when Leptis Magna was bribed by the Stygians with Marsuttan inside. I might have bribed it back afterwards, as I did it later to Vladimir. The key idea is to prevent Stygians from getting tech. The King game I won saw lots of undead spawned around cities I had taken with knights and archangels. The emperor game saw none of them. The key of the game may well have been, again, "Carthago (Nova) Delenda Est" (I kept a few saves if you are interested inseeing the progress, I can try to put a zip here). My log shows, I think, that no plan survives contact with the enemy, as, even though I had a good knowledge of what could happen, I reacted a lot to their moves. Strategic retreat was particularly useful in order to conquer land beyond Oea.
I have been playing this scenario since Marko sent it to me and done very little else.... Still, I don't have the time to make a version for ToT, as I am already committed to coding The Clash Of Civilizations (demo 7 soon) and that takes most of my constructive civving time.

Attachment: strategy.txt
This has been downloaded 6 time(s).

	19-07-2002 00:18									#92
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You won in Emperor!

I remember there was a special website for different scenario strategies. I hope it is still working. Your strategy certainy should be there.

Now is left to win in Deity level There is little hope to complete the Quest in time but everything is not lost after Summoning. My idea is to build a city on mountain as close to Malebolge as possible. When Lucifers appear, then bribe some of them and bring to the city. Lucifers can destroy the Gates of Hell and empty Malebolge what can then be captured.

quote: I've certainly considered a ToT version. The extra scenario tools could greatly increase the variety and complexity of the quest. Using FOUR maps would allow 3D underground mazes to be built into various parts of the quest. I have other stuff on my plate right now, plus a sizable queue of unfinished ToT scenarios. But if you wanted to take on such a project, I'd be happy to be an advisor. Perhaps Marko might also be interested?

TSFE is still taking all of my free time. I haven't even played Red October and Dictator yet So I can't contribute now. But if anybody is taking the project I can also help with ideas and in autumn there will be more time too.

	19-07-2002 00:54									#93
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Another reason to make a ToT version: This bribing Lucifers business has got to stop! Or perhaps use CivTweak to make the Stygians a democracy. That'll do it.

	19-07-2002 04:35									#94
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Unbribable Ludifer won't work as it is far cheaper to bribe them in-city than outdoors. Can you make a democracy have the benefits of free support units?
Note that I just won the game by bribing the gates of Hell - Marsutan had been bribed, and the Spell of Conflagration was destroyed in Phlegya by a demon before I could build a city between Phlegya and whatever its name is city that is 4 squares from the gates but 5 from Phlegya.
The game would be much harder for me with Stygians a democracy, as I bribe lots of their cities away when I can (it usually costs 1000-2000 gold but at 70%tax 30%luxury, who cares?)
Do you use the spells often? I find them very inconvenient to carry around. I sometimes use them in like 'Let's finish that silly corsair who is 2 squares from Gigia', but usually I let them sit where they are.

	19-07-2002 06:55									#95
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quote: Originally posted by LDiCesare The game would be much harder for me with Stygians a democracy, as I bribe lots of their cities away when I can (it usually costs 1000-2000 gold but at 70%tax 30%luxury, who cares?)

Yes it would. It would force you to complete the quest as it was intended, that is to get Marsutan close enough to the Gates of Hell that he can use the Spell of Conflagration. It would also have the unintended consequence of speeding up the Stygian research rate. So adjustments would have to be made there.

quote: Do you use the spells often? I find them very inconvenient to carry around. I sometimes use them in like 'Let's finish that silly corsair who is 2 squares from Gigia', but usually I let them sit where they are.

No, I usually just use the Spell of Conflagration. The Blitzen spell at Tugalete is useful to defend the Great Library against wraiths. Otherwise, just targets of opportunity as you say.

	19-07-2002 14:59									#96
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Maybe simply disactivate bribe option from diplomats and spy menu. Then slower the tech rate of Stygians (with fundamentalism penalty), so that the scenario is at least theoretically winnable in Deity level too. It makes the gameplay even more interesting as AI is stronger and much more aggressive in Deity.

	20-07-2002 02:03									#97
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I think Democracy is the way to go, but on the other side, Marsutan would have little left to enchant. If spells didn't slow down boats, he could carry them with him, though, and make for the lack of bribe units potential.