01-05-2002 05:10									#31
	Board Games Increase the size of your Attachments

That's what Game Masters are for.Any ambiguous rules are settled by the GM. Computer bugs what for a patch,if they ever fix it at all.

	01-05-2002 07:53									#32
	Support Apolyton, buy Galactic Civilizations: Deluxe Edition

Why not let people micromanage in the beginning (or at certain size) than phase in IFP? In beginning of Civ2, I like to micromanage. in mid/end game I don't.

	01-05-2002 14:01									#33
	Get a bigger avatar today!

i think that was already the idea with IFP, but i can't be sure though...

	08-05-2002 07:06									#34
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NO IFPs?!?!?!?!

AAAAAAAAAAAAAARRRRGGGHHGHHHH!!!!!!!!

Why Alan? WHy do you forsake us so????

Seriously, IFPs were the most brilliant and the most central idea to come out of the moo3 design. To me it should be the very last thing they ever removed from the game.

In fact I am so sure of this, I must conclude that they took it out because the publishers (not wanting to take a rick on sales) told them to take it out. Really, this could not be any worse. Take out the espionage. Take out the diplomacy, Even take out the space combat, just leave us the IFPs!

*grumble**grumble**grumble*

You all suck.
When you realize years from now that you had the oppertunity to make a revolutionary game and instead decided to switch over cheap schlock at the last minute you wil regret this decision. I hope this keeps you up at night.

*crys profusely8

WHY!?!?!?!?

	08-05-2002 07:17									#35
	IFP Support Apolyton, buy Civilization III: Complete

Nope Ifp's do not sound good to me,not very realistic, in a strategy game. I also do not like RTS to much, pain in the Axx.If each move = a year whats the rush with RTS? I am gald M003 is TB. I am also happy with NO IPF. Not inovative just unrealistic.

	14-05-2002 02:08									#36
	Re: IFP Inflate your Upload Space

quote: Originally posted by roalan Nope Ifp's do not sound good to me,not very realistic, in a strategy game. I also do not like RTS to much, pain in the Axx.If each move = a year whats the rush with RTS? I am gald M003 is TB. I am also happy with NO IPF. Not inovative just unrealistic.

Managing a galactic space empire while you don't even represent a person or a god but rather a guiding force is invested in micromanagement realism to what degree?

	14-05-2002 13:40									#38
	Got spare money?

i think he's saying is that micromanaging an entire empire is unrealistic, not IFP, but i share the

	14-05-2002 15:25									#39
	Support Apolyton, buy GURPS/ Alpha Centauri

Actually, there was so much hope (so VERY much hope... I guess most of you have attended the MOO3 forum too, so you do know what I mean) invested into this project by the TBS fans, after the "it was good, but not great" Civ3-semi-dissapointment...

Now, we can't expect MOO3 to be all that innovative... just another incarnation of the MOO series - just like Civ3 was "just another incarnation of the Civ series".... Gosh, I think I am going to buy HOMM4... people keep saying it's innovative ...at least.

Yeah, I feel they let us down on that... TOO!

	14-05-2002 21:01									#40
	Got spare money?

My post is like "huh" it's because I was like "huh" about this whole "realism" argument.

Everything before "is" in that sentence is one big, ugly, foul, noun phrase.

"Managing-a-galactic-space-empire-while-you-don't-even-represent-a-person-or-a-god-but-rather-a-guiding-force is invested in micromanagement "realism" to what degree?"

-mario

Last edited by madmario on 15-05-2002 at 05:38

	17-05-2002 06:12									#41
	But I wanna be a Jedi! Support Apolyton, buy Call to Power 2

MadH, it's kinda like the Force. That is real, isn't it?

	20-05-2002 03:25									#42
	Support Apolyton, pre-order Civilization IV

If its like moo 2 and the turns are slightly over a month. I think most things can be done easily in the amount of time. Unless it takes up AU it is usually a task as simple as telling someone to do something. Plus anything that takes away someone's ability to play a game lowers the game far many more levels than how they handle it now. Its a game, not real life.

quote: Originally posted by MacTBone Look, the deal with IFPs was that any human given time can run an empire perfectly. Guess what, in real life you don't have an infinite amount of time, so IFPs were almost like a time allotment for each task you wanted to perform. Let's see, I could spend an hour (1 IFP) talking to Union Workers to increase production, or 3 hours (3 IFP) negotiating a truce between two warring nations. See. Now, you have an infinfite amount of time, which is incredibly unrealistic and brings the game down a whole level.

	20-05-2002 08:01									#43
	Support Apolyton buy from Amazon

IFP appeals to brighter people who are brighter or more interested in being challenged.

	20-05-2002 16:13									#44
	Support Apolyton, buy Call to Power 2

I wouldn't know about that, GP, but it sure as heck appeals to people with a low boredom threshold. Where low == less than infinite.

	20-05-2002 21:38									#45
	Lose 30 kilos (of popups)

quote: Originally posted by GP IFP appeals to brighter people who are brighter or more interested in being challenged.

No, its not that. Most people play games to have control, IFP take it away. Do not try to insult me because of how I enjoy playing a game. I dont think that IFP has anything to do with what you just said at all. It does not make it challenging it takes away the ability to play the game. Their are better ways to make a game more challenging than IFPs. Did I insult you? No I am afraid not. So dont do it to me. If you can only prove a point by insulting people then do not post on forums about games in which mature people play who can state their opinion maturely.

	25-05-2002 00:46									#46
	Support Apolyton, buy Alpha Centauri

quote: It does not make it challenging it takes away the ability to play the game.

well, taking away the ability to play the game would be quite challenging don't you think

i don't know how exactly or how good IFP worked, but i did like the general idea behind it, that one person cannot do everything he/she wants in one turn, every leader has to decide what he does, and doesn't do, and i think IFP was there for that reason.

IFP would also add another dimension, instead of deciding what to do next, you also had to plan when you did it, ie. make priorities, and not only because you don't have enough resources.

quote: Plus anything that takes away someone's ability to play a game lowers the game far many more levels than how they handle it now

Try seeing the IFP as a "time"-resource, no resource is infinite, that would kill long-term strategy, and whenever a resource is depleted, you are no longer able to build certain things, in a way, this also takes away your ability to play.

But it doesn't really matter now, since IFP are out...that means i just wastes another 5 minutes of my life ...

	25-05-2002 00:59									#47
	IFP Increase the size of your Attachments

I get enough of IFP in Third Reich I do not need it in a simple computer game. You want a challange get 3R 4th Ed or A3R Now that would be a challange. They have not invented an AI that can compete with 3R.

	02-07-2002 21:40									#48
	Alas poor IFP... Remove this text

... I knew it...

I will miss the IFP concept but I will not miss THE IFP concept.

I believe limited visibility, limited direct involvement is the future of large scale strategy games. But I believe the technology does not exist to make it a reality yet.

I for one am not writing off QS for writing off IFPs. In my personal designs I have run across the same problem they said they found. It is difficult to tie cause and effect together, and you are often left with the feeling of 'WTF, why did that happen?' or 'Why can't I seem to ...'

I think the limitation is in the AI. When you are managing AI's you need to teach them to identify cause and effect so that AI decisions can result in cause and effect observations passed up the line to human players.

If the IFP design yielded AI's capable of doing this, there will always be time for MOOIV or MOOX to take the next step towards grand strategy with limited tactical.

Second Note: Has anybody considered that a very realistic simulation based on [laying the President might not actually be all that fun? I mean, they don't really know the impact of their presidency until 20 years have passed...

	03-07-2002 04:41									#49
	Support Apolyton, buy Galactic Civilizations: Deluxe Edition

quote: Originally posted by Nadexander NO IFPs?!?!?!?! AAAAAAAAAAAAAARRRRGGGHHGHHHH!!!!!!!! Why Alan? WHy do you forsake us so???? Seriously, IFPs were the most brilliant and the most central idea to come out of the moo3 design. To me it should be the very last thing they ever removed from the game. In fact I am so sure of this, I must conclude that they took it out because the publishers (not wanting to take a rick on sales) told them to take it out. Really, this could not be any worse. Take out the espionage. Take out the diplomacy, Even take out the space combat, just leave us the IFPs! *grumble**grumble**grumble* You all suck. When you realize years from now that you had the oppertunity to make a revolutionary game and instead decided to switch over cheap schlock at the last minute you wil regret this decision. I hope this keeps you up at night. *crys profusely8 WHY!?!?!?!?

They axed not only the IFPs, they did axe Alan as well.

Otherwise, I fully agree with your sentiment.

I hope the ghost of every single murdered IFP will come back to haunt them.

	03-07-2002 04:48									#50
	Re: Alas poor IFP... Support Apolyton, buy Call to Power 2

quote: Originally posted by ShuShu Has anybody considered that a very realistic simulation based on [laying the President might not actually be all that fun? I mean, they don't really know the impact of their presidency until 20 years have passed...

What do you mean by '[laying the President'?

Laying the President? A Monica Simulation? Slaying the President? A Bin Laden Simulation? Sounds like creative ideas, but I am puzzled.

	03-07-2002 05:20									#51
	Why Support Apolyton buy from Amazon

Why- Because I want a playable game not some hugh monstrosity that will take me 300 hours to play.That is why I am glad they made it shorter and easier to play.IFP or BRP I have them in Third Reich and they do nicely for that game.

	03-07-2002 19:07									#52
	Playing the President... Support Apolyton, pre-order Civilization IV

... Your game suggestions were far too interesting to make my point effectively...

	08-07-2002 06:10									#53
	By the way... Lose 30 kilos (of popups)

Those who want an ultra-complex game (OrionIII, before it was dumped down), please take part in my Alternative Civ poll.
http://apolyton.net/forums/showthre...&threadid=55095