08-04-2002 14:34									#31
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Returning home don't need to have anything to do with failure. Many travelled to america to work for a limited period of time, make a lot of money, and the return home was part of the original plan.

	08-04-2002 16:06									#32
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Seeker, I would say that the author was not aware of the circumstances of Italian immigration--I am fairly certain that most people that haven't made a special study of the topic (as you have) are not aware either. I certainly wasn't.

In fact, I'll go as far as to say that most Americans think the concept of coming here just to make money and then go home is a fairly new one--it certainly is one of reasons heard for shutting the gates on "the new immigrants".

	08-04-2002 17:01									#33
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I've got one stat handy for staying rates of immigrants in the US 1908-1924; the nrs are from a private research around 1930 quoted in a history book.

jews 95 %
germans 84 %
english 81 %
polish 60 %
greek 53 %
russians 50 %
italian 45 %
romanian 34 %

The book also claims that there are no other stats available, but it's from 1977. Another tidbit is that from 1880-1889, 1,34 million brits and irish immigrated to the US, and about 370.000 left.

	08-04-2002 17:07									#34
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America rocks!

	08-04-2002 17:12									#35
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The stats about people returning are a bit misleading. Many went to America to make money and return home with it. They never intended to stay.

	08-04-2002 18:56									#36
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Ehh Horsie, wan't that what I just said. Well, listen to other people is not always as fun as to speak.

	08-04-2002 19:46									#37
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Good article Sprayber.

It's also probably that we hear so much of America all the time that it becomes everyone's favourite country to protest at. Familiarity breeds contempt, and if your own country has instilled some sense of patriotism in you, then America tends to be next.

	08-04-2002 19:52									#38
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quote: Originally posted by Seeker It would never enter his American thought process that pre-war Italian immigrants overwhelming came for one purpose:

Out of genuine interest, how does a non-american author have an American thought process? We haven't thrown the entire Aussie population into re-education camps, have we?

	08-04-2002 19:58									#39
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"Out of genuine interest, how does a non-american author have an American thought process?"

By doing America studies. Seems the exposure infested his thought process. Horrible.

	09-04-2002 02:50									#40
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"jews 95 %
germans 84 %
english 81 %
polish 60 %
greek 53 %
russians 50 %
italian 45 %
romanian 34 % "

Yes 45% is more accurate. Note the Jewish stat, werry interesting, but that's a whole other story.

Yes the author probably just didn't know....so he assumed....

And we all know what happens when you assume....

You make an ASS out of U and ME...

	09-04-2002 04:59									#41
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quote: Originally posted by DinoDoc Out of genuine interest, how does a non-american author have an American thought process? We haven't thrown the entire Aussie population into re-education camps, have we?

I watched the 2000 New Year's celebration on TV from Sydeney, and every song they played was an American or Canadian Rock song (Bryan Adams). EVERY song. It made me wonder why they weren't playing something more local. Perhaps it is a thought process.

	09-04-2002 05:04									#42
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quote: Originally posted by Roland By doing America studies. Seems the exposure infested his thought process. Horrible.

How is that you are seemingly immune from the effects of this "plague"?

	09-04-2002 05:07									#43
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It only affects those of inferior intellect.

	09-04-2002 05:12									#44
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About that inverse relationship between educational level and church attendence: I attend church regularily and I'll stack my educational "level" up against any regular posrter here. Heck, I'll match it against any TWO regular posters.

	09-04-2002 05:15									#45
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Apparently they never bothered teaching you about the difference between statistical trends and anecdotal evidence at whatever fancy schools you attended.

	09-04-2002 05:33									#46
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Oooooh, scorch marks. . .

	09-04-2002 05:54									#47
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There was a after it...

	09-04-2002 07:11									#48
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What I don't understand is why "foreigner's" think ALL American's think the same?

I've noticed when travelling that different regions have different thinking. I live in Hawaii and our states collective thinking sides more with Asia and Polynesia than Europe. I cant stand it when "foreigners" think all Americans (stereotypically) are rude and self-centered.

Hawaii's thinking is to be more polite and to accept everyone for who they are. On this island, Muslims/Christians/Hindu's/Sihk/Catholics/etc. can all sit down together and talk like we are family. It sucks to think that some people out there think all American's think one way.

From what I've seen, Hawaii seems to be "out-of-the-loop". Meaning, many "foreigner's" treat people from Hawaii as "Hawaiians" rather than Americans. Which, I think particularly enjoy.

For example:

I met an Iranian couple at my workplace and while conversing with them they told me that Hawaii is the only place in America they visit. They told me that they love it here and many other Iranian's consider Hawaii a separate entity from the 'States.

Although this is just one example, I enjoyed talking to this couple to hear what they had to say.


To give you people a quick history lesson of Hawaii:

Hawaii was an independent kingdom that was self-sufficient. Our monarchy's relation to other governments was one of friendship and openness. The United Kingdom in particular was considered a staunch ally of the Hawaiian monarchy. I do not remember which king first visited England but the monarchy favored the British.

Years later, a group of American's plotted to overthrow our monarchy and succeeded. Lorrin Thurston along with other's overthrew Queen Liliuokalani and the Hawaiian Kingdom was annexed by the United States government.

Today, activist groups are fighting the illegal overthrow of the Hawaiian monarchy and are seeking justice. So far, the U.S. government has not even acknowledged wrong-doing for the annexation.

Therfore, even though Hawaii is considered a state of the U.S.A., many people here consider themselves "Americans", but distinct from the "Mainlanders".

	09-04-2002 09:30									#49
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"What I don't understand is why "foreigner's" think ALL American's think the same?"

The source of your confusion is the fact that most foreigners do not actually think this way, in my experience. Only a few ignorant ones do.


Happy to clear that up!

'American re-education camps"

LOL why would you need something as crude as all that? There are much subtler ways to propagate your culture accross borders, especially buying up local private media and drowning out public media....(magazines, cinema, TV, radio etc etc)

	09-04-2002 09:33									#50
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I would participate in this thread, but I am too busy planning the invasion of Canada, our backward, northern neighbor.

	09-04-2002 21:33									#51
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Some points are true.

However who ever said that the United States is a young country?
What they say is that it is a young nation.
A nation can exist without a country and almost all nations in Europe and some in Asia are far older than the American nation.

I will agree regarding the science. Americans dominate in many areas for the past half of century and have an important scientic contribution since the late 19th century. But perhaps I need to remind you that a great percentage of those sientists are from Europe or Asia that studied in American universities and got a job sortly after in the US. That's because of the great funds that the US gives to scientific research, greater than any other country in the world.

In the movies the Americans also dominate for the past decates. But this has to do with quantity and not quality. Yes, there are lot of quality American movies and I personally prefer american movies but Europe and perhaps Asia has lot of quality movies to present as well. They just don't have the quantity the US have. Besides cinema is a very expencive art and funds in America are much larger than any other country in the world. Perhaps even greater than all together

Music seems to be less expencive that's probably the reason America doesn't dominate.

It seems that America's excellence has mostly to do with its surpassing wealth.

Two points that haven't been pointed out and honor America is its Independence and its contribution in the world balance through 20th century.

Independence took place between 1775 and 1783. It ended with the involvement of France economically and militarily. 6 years later the French Revolution occured and the next century its ideas spread all over Europe. I don't think it was a coincidence. American Independence might have triggered the French Revolution and many of the Independence's ideals spread through the French soldiers and possibly migrants to France that led to its Revolution. Just a though of mine.

United States helped to retain world balance during the two world wars. US helped Europe win a disastrous world war I and prevented fasism from dominating over the world. Aslo both USA and USSR retained a world balance and preventing each other from dominating over the rest of the world which would be quite easy with Europe in dust after the end of world war II.

	10-04-2002 00:28									#52
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quote: Originally posted by Keygen Some points are true. It seems that America's excellence has mostly to do with its surpassing wealth.

eh???

What wealth?? The wealth that is concentrated in 5% of United State's population??

	10-04-2002 00:31									#53
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quote: Originally posted by MrFun eh??? What wealth?? The wealth that is concentrated in 5% of United State's population??

And the vast middle class our country has, making them/us wealthier than the majority of people on earth.

	10-04-2002 02:03									#54
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quote: Originally posted by MrFun eh??? What wealth?? The wealth that is concentrated in 5% of United State's population??

Have you read the entire post?

Well, yes you achivements are caused by the 5% you mentioned.
What did you expected? More?