12-04-2002 07:43									#31
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I'd just like to interject here that not all Christians are homophobes, and there are some denominations that are actually homo-friendly.

"gay Cornhuskers"? Oh my gosh, what a phrase. Am I the only one who sees the double meaning in that?

	12-04-2002 07:54									#32
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quote: Originally posted by Dr Strangelove I'd just like to interject here that not all Christians are homophobes, and there are some denominations that are actually homo-friendly.

I read some of the posts in here now that I am checking all threads again.

I have a question for those who argue that the coach is not a bigot.

If you call a group of people deragatory names because of a part of those people's identity, wouldn't that make you a bigot??

	12-04-2002 08:00									#33
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quote: Originally posted by MrFun If you call a group of people deragatory names because of a part of those people's identity, wouldn't that make you a bigot??

When did Brown ever do this? He doesn't attack homosexuals or call them derogatory names. He just doesn't believe that homosexuality is morally correct.

The thing that interested me about this story is the ambiguity of it all. Brown supports a viewpoint that many people feel is evil and bigoted. OTOH, he is generally acknowledged to be a good person and does lots of good things for the community. Which is the more important facet of his life, his beliefs or his actions? Makes you think...

	12-04-2002 08:07									#34
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My little dictionary defines bigot as: A person who is intolerant, especially in matters of religion, race or politics.

I guess that make Stanford bigots too.

	12-04-2002 08:10									#35
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quote: Originally posted by Drake Tungsten When did Brown ever do this? He doesn't attack homosexuals or call them derogatory names. He just doesn't believe that homosexuality is morally correct. The thing that interested me about this story is the ambiguity of it all. Brown supports a viewpoint that many people feel is evil and bigoted. OTOH, he is generally acknowledged to be a good person and does lots of good things for the community. Which is the more important facet of his life, his beliefs or his actions? Makes you think...

Got a question for you then.

If a person opposes interracial marriages, because he/she sees that as being immoral according to their values, does that make the person racist? Let's say they never use deragatory names about blacks.

	12-04-2002 08:13									#36
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MrFun... in interracial marriages people don't stick their thingies up.. well you know .

It is a different thing. I can tell you that it causes revulsion in me, but I haven't been called a bigot by the homosexuals that I know.

	12-04-2002 08:15									#37
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More from my dictionary:

Racism: The belief that some races are inherently better than others.

I guess it would depend on if someone thought he was superior. If someone just believed in seperation of the races I don't think they would fit the definition.

	12-04-2002 08:18									#38
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quote: Originally posted by Imran Siddiqui MrFun... in interracial marriages people don't stick their thingies up.. well you know . It is a different thing. I can tell you that it causes revulsion in me, but I haven't been called a bigot by the homosexuals that I know.

Heterosexuals can talk about their relationships, and homosexuals are expected to keep their mouths shut.

Heterosexuals can behave appropriately with light affection in public, as couples, and homosexuals cannot.

Heterosexuals can advertise baby showers, weddings, and so forth at workplaces without fear of deragatory reactions. That is not the case for homosexuals.

I have explained the legitimacy of coming out a couple of times before.

Back to my question now --- why is revulsion towards interracial marriage different than revulsion towards homosexuals??

	12-04-2002 08:21									#39
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quote: Originally posted by MrFun Got a question for you then. If a person opposes interracial marriages, because he/she sees that as being immoral according to their values, does that make the person racist? Let's say they never use deragatory names about blacks.

It depends. If they only consider the practice of interracial marriage to be immoral, then I wouldn't consider them to be racist. If they considered the practice of interracial marriage to be immoral because one of the people trying to get married is of an unliked racial background, then it is racist.

An example of the first would be the practice of some blacks or jews not approving of marriage outside their ethnic groups.

An example of the second would be a white family not wanting their daughter to marry a black man because they dislike blacks.

I hope I explained the difference properly...

	12-04-2002 08:22									#40
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"Back to my question now --- why is revulsion towards interracial marriage different than revulsion towards homosexuals??"

Or why is it different than revulsion towards Chirstians?

	12-04-2002 08:24									#41
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quote: Originally posted by MrFun Heterosexuals can talk about their relationships, and homosexuals are expected to keep their mouths shut.

Those who support homosexuality can talk about their beliefs, but those who think homosexuality is wrong are expected to keep their mouths shut.

I think everyone should be able to talk about their beliefs without having others attack them for who they are.

	12-04-2002 08:42									#42
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I think that without doubt Stanford discriminated

the suggestion otherwise is rediculous

whether it was proper discrimination or not is another matter

today discrimination against unpopular beleifs is just as much as it always was, it is just that different beleifs are unpopular

Jon Miller

	12-04-2002 08:43									#43
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quote: Originally posted by Drake Tungsten Those who support homosexuality can talk about their beliefs, but those who think homosexuality is wrong are expected to keep their mouths shut. I think everyone should be able to talk about their beliefs without having others attack them for who they are.

legally yes

however, some think differently (And act on it)

and there is also the issue of it being a private institution

Jon Miller

	12-04-2002 08:47									#44
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quote: Those who support homosexuality can talk about their beliefs, but those who think homosexuality is wrong are expected to keep their mouths shut.

Those who believe that no race is superior to another can talk about their beliefs, but those who think that one race is superior to another are expected to keep their mouths shut.

What, exactly, is your point?

	12-04-2002 08:50									#45
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quote: Originally posted by Drake Tungsten quote: "I don't believe homosexuality is biblically correct," he said. "But that doesn't mean I disdain the people or do anything to disrespect anyone here." Are these the words of a bigot?

The article, which is quite questionable, states:

"In November 1999, Brown drew heavy media attention after he called homosexuality a sin on his Christian radio talk show, then called "Husker Sports Report." On the show, he admitted hating and sometimes harassing homosexuals as a child."

The article contains a bias of claiming that Brown was not considered because of his religion, but that is highly debatable.

Consider this quote:
"(His religion) was definitely something that had to be considered," said Alan Glenn, Stanford's assistant athletic director of human resources.

Glenn doesn't say that religion was a factor. The reporter inserted "(his religion)" into the quote.

Stanford was obviously concerned about hiring a man who thinks homosexuals are evil. That's a valid concern.

Whether his religion was a factor is open to question.

	12-04-2002 08:50									#46
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quote: Originally posted by Asher Those who believe that no race is superior to another can talk about their beliefs, but those who think that one race is superior to another are expected to keep their mouths shut. What, exactly, is your point?

Just providing a counter-point to MrFun's original statement...

	12-04-2002 09:10									#47
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quote: Originally posted by Asher Those who believe that no race is superior to another can talk about their beliefs, but those who think that one race is superior to another are expected to keep their mouths shut. What, exactly, is your point?

no they aren't

they have free speach

Jon Miller

	12-04-2002 09:14									#48
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quote: Originally posted by Tingkai The article, which is quite questionable, states: "In November 1999, Brown drew heavy media attention after he called homosexuality a sin on his Christian radio talk show, then called "Husker Sports Report." On the show, he admitted hating and sometimes harassing homosexuals as a child."

When he was young, who did not?

Jon Miller

	12-04-2002 09:16									#49
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quote: Originally posted by Jon Miller no they aren't they have free speach Jon Miller

No, not if you want to keep your job at head coach at Stanford.

Freedom of speech doesn't mean you can go stand up on a podium and denounce an entire segment of society and then whine when you find out not everyone wants to employ a whacko.

	12-04-2002 09:51									#50
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quote: Originally posted by Drake Tungsten It depends. If they only consider the practice of interracial marriage to be immoral, then I wouldn't consider them to be racist. If they considered the practice of interracial marriage to be immoral because one of the people trying to get married is of an unliked racial background, then it is racist.

quote: Originally posted by Drake Tungsten An example of the first would be the practice of some blacks or jews not approving of marriage outside their ethnic groups. An example of the second would be a white family not wanting their daughter to marry a black man because they dislike blacks. I hope I explained the difference properly...

So, then, following your logic, a person who is against the actual practice of homosexual relationships because they dislike homosexuals, is heterosexist, or homophobic, right??

A second question --- I diagree with your first example. If blacks or Jews do not want anyone to marry outside of their group, then they are, in essence, being racist anti-Christian.

	12-04-2002 09:52									#51
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I find it very interesting how the people on this thread who don't agree with Brown's views are attempting to demonize a person they know nothing about. If someone doesn't abide by your system of morals then they must be a "whacko" or think "homosexuals are evil". Anyone want to take bets on when the first Nazi reference will appear?

	12-04-2002 09:57									#52
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quote: Originally posted by Drake Tungsten I find it very interesting how the people on this thread who don't agree with Brown's views are attempting to demonize a person they know nothing about. If someone doesn't abide by your system of morals then they must be a "whacko" or think "homosexuals are evil". Anyone want to take bets on when the first Nazi reference will appear?

I find it funny we have Christian apologists in here that shouldn't been apologizing.

The issue was "Is Stanford discriminating against Christians?". No, they are not.

Stanford IS disciminating against people with controversial (some will say bigoted) attitudes towards a segment of the population, which is quite active at Stanford.

That is completely reasonable to beginwith, and now add to that fact that it's a private institution.

You guys should take your whining elsewhere, nobody cares that he's Christian, just that he's a homophobe. End of story.

	12-04-2002 09:59									#53
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quote: Originally posted by MrFun So, then, following your logic, a person who is against the actual practice of homosexual relationships because they dislike homosexuals, is heterosexist, or homophobic, right?? A second question --- I diagree with your first example. If blacks or Jews do not want anyone to marry outside of their group, then they are, in essence, being racist anti-Christian.

You're not making any sense Mr. Fun.

According to my logic, you can disapprove of the act of homosexual relationships without hating homosexuals as people.

If someone hates homosexuals, then they are homophobic. If they don't hate homosexuals, then they aren't homophobic. It isn't that hard to understand.

Similarly, a jew can disapprove of marriages outside the jewish community without hating other religions or races.

	12-04-2002 10:05									#54
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quote: Originally posted by Asher You guys should take your whining elsewhere, nobody cares that he's Christian, just that he's a homophobe. End of story.

I'm not a Christian and don't really give a crap if Stanford wants to discriminate against conservative Christians. I just presented a story that I thought was interesting and exposed some of the hypocrisy inherent in the culture of "diversity". You're the one who's spouting off about an article you obviously didn't read. So, who's the whiner here?

	12-04-2002 10:08									#55
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quote: Originally posted by Imran Siddiqui MrFun... in interracial marriages people don't stick their thingies up.. well you know .

Who says we don't?

	12-04-2002 10:09									#56
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quote: Originally posted by Drake Tungsten You're not making any sense Mr. Fun. According to my logic, you can disapprove of the act of homosexual relationships without hating homosexuals as people. If someone hates homosexuals, then they are homophobic. If they don't hate homosexuals, then they aren't homophobic. It isn't that hard to understand. Similarly, a jew can disapprove of marriages outside the jewish community without hating other religions or races.

I read my argument over --- it makes sense.

One other question.

One of the ways all people strive for happiness, is to establish and develop an intimate relationship with someone they love and care about.

How can someone deny homosexuals that same human need, and not hate homosexuals??

	12-04-2002 10:12									#57
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quote: I'm not a Christian and don't really give a crap if Stanford wants to discriminate against conservative Christians. I just presented a story that I thought was interesting and exposed some of the hypocrisy inherent in the culture of "diversity". You're the one who's spouting off about an article you obviously didn't read. So, who's the whiner here?

Obviously didn't read?
Look at the thing, it's full of evidence and misquotes (notice the brackets inserted for key words?)

It's not an interesting story, it happens all the time.

You do NOT appoint "whackos" in very public positions, as it reflects on the institution/corporation.

Stanford doesn't want someone with a history of public homophobia as a football coach.

What's the issue here?

The issue here is he's trying to make it into a big deal about his religion.
That gets on my nerves.

	12-04-2002 10:13									#58
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quote: Originally posted by MrFun How can someone deny homosexuals that same human need, and not hate homosexuals??

Because human beings, while capable of rationality, aren't necessarily rational. We are more than capable of holding contradictory beliefs at the same time.

	12-04-2002 10:14									#59
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quote: Originally posted by MrFun How can someone deny homosexuals that same human need, and not hate homosexuals??

How is Brown denying homosexuals their need for relationships? There's a big difference between not agreeing that homosexuality is morally correct and actively attempting to deny homosexuals the right to be together. You're missing the difference between thought and action again...

	12-04-2002 10:18									#60
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quote: Originally posted by Drake Tungsten How is Brown denying homosexuals their need for relationships? There's a big difference between not agreeing that homosexuality is morally correct and actively attempting to deny homosexuals the right to be together. You're missing the difference between thought and action again...

No, I am not missing the difference.

If he had the power to do so, he would definitely set out to enact laws that would deny homosexuals their basic human need for loving relationships.

Whenever anyone has a belief that involves an opposition against something, they would be likely happy if they had the power to systematically go about banning or outlawing whatever they oppose.