16-04-2002 09:23									#31
	Increase the size of your Attachments

I don't go all out. I've played a few of the bigger mods, and I just don't like the fact that they change everything just because they can. I just started making changes, here's the list so far.

Renamed "Map Making" to "Sailing," and transeferred the "trade maps" ability to "Navigation." The world was getting discovered too fast. This slows it down some. Good world maps didn't come about until men could safely navigate the oceans.

Moved "trade communications" from "Writing" to "Astronomy" This was an attempt to slow down the tech trading. It helps some.

Moved "Military Alliances" & "MPP" to nationalism. I'm really pleased with this change so far. From my perspective, Ancient wars were mostly one on one. It wasn't until later when nations became nations that all the politics behind warfare started to come about.

I made all ancient units upgrade to at least rifleman. I just don't like to see warriors running around in 1903.

That's it so far. I might add a coastal 2 move boat that is immediately available with pottery or something. Maybe have 0/1/2 stats and carry one unit.

	16-04-2002 13:22									#32
	Support Apolyton or Terrorists Win

just a few highlights:

added several buildings I felt were more than needed: school, college, church, stock exchange, newspaper, observatory, etc. the computer players just love them. they build/get them before other normal game improvements. this is specially noticeable when bombarding a city, even a small one.

any unit with long range weapons now has a bombard hability in line with its attack strength. so now archers, musketeers, riflemen, infantry and so on can really defend a city rather then just standing there waiting to be attacked. the computer uses this also.

wonders like Sun Tzu, I. Agency, Heroic Epic and M. Academy now have corruption reduction capabilities.

units such as riflemen, infantary and marines have two movement points as they are not moving by foot but rather get transported by an army truck of some sort. nothing like putting your imagination to work.

have also increased the attack and defense values of some modern units in order to avoid a marine with an AK74 being beaten by a warior with a stick. of course if the marine gets ganged up by 4 or 5 warriors he will eventually fall.

desert will not be irrigated but can have a forest panted on it.

hp for veteran and elite increased by one to really reflect the difference.

continue to change and tweaking. I like the game a lot more nowadays.

	16-04-2002 17:56									#33
	Support Apolyton, pre-order Civilization IV

Some good hints here

These are my changes (but not all of them are my ideas). I have not added anything, just edited the bic file. In addition to these I am considering making the settler wheeled and taking away the ability of the leader to rush wonders. And the slowdown of trade mentioned by The Rook above looks very good too.

World Sizes:
Distance between civs changed:
Size From To
Tiny 6 10
Small 9 14
Standard 12 18
Large 18 24
Huge 24 32
Optimal number of cities (corruption):
From To
Tiny 12 16
Small 14 19
Standard 16 22
Large 24 30
Huge 32 40

Citizens:
Tax Collectors generate two taxes instead of one
Tax Collectors available with Currency
Scienticts generate two research instead of one
Scientists available with Writing

Civilizations:
Japanese start with Warrior Code instead of The Wheel
Chinese start with The Wheel instead of Warrior Code
Added Trade to "Build Often" for Rome

Governments:
No changes

Civilization Advances:
No changes

Improvements:
Barracks now require Warrior Code
Temple and Cathedral now reduce corruption.

Small Wonders:
Forbidden Palace now has a maintenance of 5 (was 0)

General Settings:
Wealth Cost Per Gold: changed to 5 from 8.
Forest Value in Shields: Now 15 instead of 10
Turn penalty for hurrying production and drafting reduced to 30

Units:
Scout and Explorer now have 1 defense instead of 0.
Tank, Mech Inf, Modern Armor, Panzer: Now Wheeled and cannot be Airlifted
Longbowman now has a defense of 2
Musketman and Musketeer now costs 50 shields
Cavalry now has a move of 2
Frigate and Ironclad now become obsolete with Destroyer
Ironclad now moves 3
Carrier now has a move of 5
Battleship now has attack 22 and defense 14 (was 18/12)
Aegis Cruiser now has attack 16 and defense 12 (was 12/10) and can carry tactical missiles
Destroyer now can see subs

Worker Jobs:
Railroads now become available with Industrialization
Irrigation now requires Pottery
Mining now requires Masonry

Terrain:
Desert can no longer be irrigated
Tundra no longer produces any food
Grassland can no longer be mined
Forest can now be mined

Diplomats ans Spies
Build an embassy costs 15 instead of 20
Investigate city costs 5 instead of 10
Steal Technology costs 7 instead of 10
Plant Spy costs 40 instead of 60
Steal Plans costs 7 instead of 10
Initiate Propaganda costs 70 instead of 100
Sabotage production costs 7 instead of 10
Expose enemy spy costs 50 instead of 80

	16-04-2002 22:29									#34
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization III: Complete

What effect would you say wheeled Settlers has? Does it just make chunks of land inaccessible except by boat?

	16-04-2002 22:53									#35
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The one change I really use a lot is a very simple one: I make one of the map sizes 120x120 (between Standard and Large defaults) but give it all the same attributes as Large. The result is a very comfortably sized map with a little less corruption, a little slower tech advancements, and a few more civs thrown in.

	16-04-2002 22:53									#36
	Support Apolyton

A couple of my mods.

1. Cut corruption by giving corruption fighting ability to all early improvements.

2. Increased movement of all naval units, increased combat values of all (6 for galleys up to 20+ for aegis cruiser), giving even galleys bombard capability. Gave naval power tag to pre frigate naval units.

3. Solved sluggish land unit problem (hate watching that warrior take 500 years to cross a medium sized continent). Made roads easy to build (one turn for most), and made them 9 movement. 1st simply upped all movement, but realized that took away fast units advantage, settled on this.

4. Changed some units, upped all uu's.

Unit Stats Upgrade to Special
archer as is l.bowman zoc
chariot 1-2-2 horseman wheeled
horseman 2-1-3 knight none
lbowman 4-1-1 rifleman zoc
swordsman 3-2-1 rifleman none
jag. warr 2-1-2 rifleman none
bab. bow 3-2-1 " zoc
war char 3-2-2 cavalry wheeled
impi 2-2-2 rifleman none
hoplite 2-3-1 rifleman none
mount warr. 3-2-3 cavalry none
legionary 3-3-2 infantry none
immortal 4-3-1 infantry none
samurai 5-4-2 infantry none
rider 4-4-3 none zoc, blitz
war eleph 5-5-2 none zoc, no resources
muskateer 5-4-1 infantry none
cossack 7-4-3 none zoc, blitz


Can't remember exactly what man-o-war, panzer, and f-15, but my philosophy is to power them up more if they appear late, simple ratios of numbers thing. Also, if no upgrade, I give 'em a little something extra.

	16-04-2002 23:12									#37
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quote: Originally posted by chriss Hahaha thats because RNH servers Suck! Chriss

	16-04-2002 23:29									#38
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quote: Originally posted by bigvic Unit Stats Upgrade to Special archer as is l.bowman zoc chariot 1-2-2 horseman wheeled

Shouldnt your chariot be an offensive unit. I dont recall ever reading about their use as a defensive unit.

	16-04-2002 23:53									#39
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quote: Originally posted by SpencerH Shouldnt your chariot be an offensive unit. I dont recall ever reading about their use as a defensive unit.

Yeah, its partly a game balance thing, but actually, historically, apart, perhaps from the Egyptians, chariots kind of sucked. From what I remember they were a lot more sound and thunder than they would seem to have been and as soon as people learned how to fight from horseback effectively, became obsolete fast. I gues I was thinking very abstractly, you know, sort of "circling the wagons". And again, I wanted a 1-2-2 unit. Damned near useless anyway, except as defensive company for rampageing jaguar warriors

	17-04-2002 00:19									#40
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All I did once, was change the leader heads to a custom one frame *.flc file. That cased the game the crash from time to time. I have since then stopped my modding of Civ3, since it would be usless trying to make a mod with the old civ faces staring at you.

	17-04-2002 00:29									#41
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quote: Originally posted by Miznia What effect would you say wheeled Settlers has? Does it just make chunks of land inaccessible except by boat?

They can't move into jungle or mountain squares unless on a road. It slows expansion a bit. It does have a couple of problems:
- You may have to restart if you are in an untenable position
- An AI may be unable to develop properly because of a bad starting position
- A tribe you get from a hut may effectively be unable to move (as you aren't likely to get roads to there anytime soon).

All this seems acceptable to me. You could also give a non-wheeled settler to starting civs. That would eliminate these problems, but it requires the addition of a unit and I have for the moment decided to restrict myself to editing the bic file.

	17-04-2002 06:55									#42
	Verrry Interesting Increase the size of your Attachments

I haven't changed much (waiting for the one true patch ) or for development of a number of "standard" mod settings - sort of like the Celestial Dawn version of CTP (the game which dare not speak its name ).

What I am doing now is increasing the tech minimum to 8 and maximum to 80. It lets me play war with my early units. I was finding that by time I had enough legionaries or swordsmen or samurai to launch a decent attack the AI was building infantry and tanks - or at least it seemed that way . So now I have large stacks of early Romans on the rampage - until they run into large stacks of early Egyptians and Persians.

I think I'll definitely be trying some of the ones identified here. Especially the ones the AI seems to use to its advantage. The tech trading and communications limits seem quite interesting.

	17-04-2002 07:38									#43
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All I have done is :

Give barracks reduce corruption tag
Upped HP of units to 3/4/5/7
Increased Max. allowable cities( which changes corruption and also changes how many cities you need to be able to build the FP)

Lowered the max research time to 30( probably end up making it higher)

Changed some of the terraform times.

Warriors, swordsman,etc... upgrade to infantry.

	17-04-2002 16:57									#44
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:

its a looooong way to 500



Chriss

	18-04-2002 00:52									#45
	A discussion of Tactics/Strategy Under the Bigvic Mod Inflate your Upload Space

Strategy and tactics under my mod are ingeneral the same as an unmodded game except for the massive increase in mobility. The increased values of the uu's affect things, but not as much. Basically I've noticed two broad military philosophies useable in the game, the mobile steamroller (favorite of the AI) and the plodding meat grinder (arcane mystery to the AI). The mobile steam roller is simply a monstrous mob of your strongest, most mobile attack units. This is practically the limit of the AI's comprehension of offensive (and, unfortunately for it, defensive) strategy. No real comment is needed here, as we've all seen it and at times used it. Its certainly not a bad strategy, often the best if the circumstances call for it. When it gets up a good head of steam, the steam roller is hard to stop, especially when slow units are its opponents consist primarily of slow units. I've only witnessed two other AI attack strategies, the insidious ooze, and the advancing trap line. The insidious ooze, often used in conjunction with the steam roller or in lieu of when no fast units are available, is a horde of slow, often 2nd rate units spaced out, finding the path of least resistance and most defensible cover, flowing through all holes to converge upon some objective, or wreak havoc on your improvements. Sometimes the ooze results in a "go"-like encirclement, but generally this is the result of some combination of sloppy housekeeping on the part of the human player and ridiculously gigantic AI hordes. The trap line is a rare animal indeed, only seen it 2 or 3 times, and in my opinion is the most deadly and subtle AI strategy. It seems to indicate a lack of some awesome unit resourse, esp. horses, and is employed usually in wide open terrain. Basically the AI lines its troops, sticking crappy, obsolete bait troops out front, with kill stacks waiting behind. It dares you to bite the bait, then mobs you when you do. Slowely it advances, daring you to hit it before you are ready. Finally, if you are not carefull, or are not patient, or are too patient, it envelopes you. The Babs are good at this.
So much for what the AI does. What wins games for us at high levels is doing what the AI does NOT. One military strategy the AI definately does NOT is the plodding meat grinder.
-Recipe for a Plodding Meat Grinder_
*10-40% defenders - pikemen, muskateers, riflemen, infantry
*10-50% slow attackers - swordsmen, l.bowmen, infantry
*10-40% bombarders - catapult, canon, artillery
*10-30% fast attackers - horsemen, knights, cav., tanks
* an army or two is nice, esp. a good defensive one
Stack 'em all together, and begin Sherman's march to the sea. Bombard enemy objectives and kill stacks, hit stragglers w/fast attackers, kill bombard reduced fast units w/ slow attackers if no fast ones remain, and leave a strong group of defensive units behind to guard the artillery when the meat grinder advances. A few workers to build roads/ rr's and a settler or two to rebuild razed cities (and simulate camp followers) are excellent additions too. You might notice a lack of mention of late game units, as their mobility alters the paradigm, creating, in effect, the ability to create mobile steam rolling meat grinders.
OK, this has all been a bit off topic, but I needed to preface the following discussion of how it affects my modified units.

Jaguar Warrior - At 2-1-2, not upgradeable til rifleman, the JW allows early conquest yet remains a viable auxiliary/scratch force/scout for quite some time. Best employed in an insidious ooze attack, they can be rapidly coalesced at the objective for a hit and run human wave assault. For a mobile meat grinder/steamroller, build afew of those nearly useless chariots, which at 1-2-2 in my mod, perfectly balance the JW, giving a fast defense to protect early conquests. Both are so cheap too. Even when the JW becomes obsolete, he can fulfill a number of useful roles, as mentioned above, as well as softening up tough slow units.
Impi - The 2-2-2 Impi allows a strategy similar to the JW, but with defense. One of the best, most balanced units of the game, hordes of fast moving Impis can form an early game steam roller that can appear out of nowhere, take the objective, and then hold it. And they are cheap, lending themselves well to hit and run human wave tactics even after the appearance of superior attck/defnce units. In fact the utility of this unit, once obsolescence inevitably strikes, is greater than the JW, due to its higher defence, making for a solid screening force to guard ones flanks. Its also a nice quick build defender in far flung cities not linked to iron, or in whom you need a defender fast. After it gets replaced by a better defender, release the Impis and send em up front, or keep 'em home as a mobile defender/police unit.
Hoplite - At 2-3-1, you may be tempted to waste the potential of this unit by parking it in cities and forgetting about it. If you want to be a true Alexander, however, they form the basis for an excellent plodding meat grinder. Perfectly balanced by the 3-2-1 swordsman, the hoplite with its 2 attk is even capable of carrying that desperate must take assault when the swordsmen fail, then hold it w/ that 3 defense. Once obsolete (not until the appearence of musketmen) roles are a bit more limited than either of the two aforementioned units - a good 1st defender in iron lacking cities, settler escort, barbarian hunters, cheap police troops. Depending on your taste, type of government, and exigencies of the moment, its a good question which to do in a meat grinder army, lots of hoplites, of a few musketmen?
War Chariot - Use your industrious Egy workers to cut roads through mountains and jungles and let slip the 3-2-2 war chariots of war. Its so hard to bring onesself to go conquest happy with the industrious culture busting out Egy's, but what a missed opportunity. These cheapo units are tough. Once you do succumb to the "chill and build" mentality of the typical Egy game, keep a few hordes of WC's on the roads back home and dare people to invade your well developed death trap. Not oblolete til military tradition and usefu until then in a variety of roles. And they look soo cool.
Bowman - Basically a cheap swordsman (3-2-1) with zoc who requires no resource. Perfect basis for a plodding meat grinder, or trap line, these guys are absolutely devastating when they appear, and remain effective as long as swordsmen, longer, since their cheap cost lends well to human wave assaults. The zoc is perfect for meat grinders - try to ooze around these guys. As stated before, I've seen 'em employed devastatingly in the trap line offense, though perhaps that sticks out in my mind inordinately.
Mounted Warrior - Under my mod, with the 3 movement horsemen, the 3-2-3 monted warrior is fearsome indeed, transforming the non militaristic Iroqois into an early game conquest machine. Mobile, hard hitting, and capable of holding the objective, and visually impressive, you almost don't want to upgrade them when cavalry becomes available...almost. They make a great adjunct to a horde of knights, ranging out ahead of the main strike force, encircling and cutting off retreats, wreaking havoc in the enemy's rear guard.
Legionary - Except for their iron requirement, almost all the tactical specs for the Impi apply to the legionary, except better. Legions also make better defensive troops, fullfilling that role in meatgrinders as well as behind city walls. At 3-3-2, they can keep up w/ the knights when they appear, and have a great survivability rate against slow units. Its often tempting to not build musketmen, just stick w/ legions, but since the Romans usually find themselves defending on one front while attacking on at least one other, and since the legion is not upgradeable til infantry, its probably a good idea to not skimp on the musketmen after all. Make great auxiliaries when riflemen, cavalry and cannon rule.
Immortal - The 4-3-1 Immortal is a slow knight and perfect basis for a plodding meatgrinder. Not as versitile as the legionary, but devastating when used properly. Even can take down musketmen. Once obsolete, keep 'em around, esp. elites, to finish off weakened defenders in an effort to generate gl's.
Samurai - The only knight class unit in my mod that is upgradeable (to infantry), the 5-4-2 samurai is a steamroller if ever there was one. Adaptable to a plodding meatgrinder army, giving it devastating strike out potential. Question is, do you upgrade to slow infantry when the time comes?
War elephant - Whoah Nellie! 5-5-2, zoc, no required resources, no upgrade. When these guys show up, people better leave you alone if they know whats good fer 'em. If not, send out steamroller hordes of these and dare anyone to take back what you conquer. Even when cavalry and riflemen show up, its hard to beat a horde of war elephants. Even when infantry and tanks appear, the war elephant fills a variety of useful roles, as well as conjuring up interesting mental images. Not until the modern units come out is the utility of this unit called into question.
Riders - Another non upgradeable unit, the rider, 4-4-3, zoc, blitz, is a true steamroller, a terror to behold, and an extremely versitile unit, along the lines of the impi and legionary. When cavalry comes, hordes of the two can be nearly unstoppable. The Mongols bloom late.
Cossacks - 7-4-3, zoc, blitz. The ultimate horseman, these are perfectly suited to both steamroller and ooze attacks. With their blitz abilities, the Russians are in a perfect position for an industrial age rampage. Probably a good idea to set up a few meatginders supported by obsolete knights (which can't be upgraded to cossacks anyway) as well. Cossacks remain viable as scout/scratch/screening/police troops well into the modern age, accompanying infantry artillery meatgrinders as strikers, and keeping up w/ the tanks to occupy conquered cities.
Panzers - Faster and tougher than tanks, it feels sooo good when you finally get these guys. If you have managed to repress your true nature and be Mr. Nice Guy til now, find someone who's been pissing you off and release that pent up aggression all over them. Barring modern armor, the ultimate steamroller, the panzer is even capable (18 attk) of dealing w/ mech inf, which is good, since you can't upgrade them to modern armor. No big deal, just build new tanks, and keep the option around to pop out a few of these cheapos as needed.
F-15 Talk about delayed gratification. Honestly, I've no experience w/ these. I guess as the American you've built well balanced meatgrinders supported by a few steamrollers and whatever it took to survive and thrive this far. I assume you've pumped out airports wherever possible, and assembled a vast, mainly bomber airforce, since fighters can't upgrade to F-15's. Then build swarms of these and have some fun. I've upped attk, bombard, air intercept on these considerably. Looking forward to using them.
Man-o-war - Oh, almost forgot. these can stand up to ironclads, catch up to privateers, bombard better than a frigate, and carry two troops. Despite the fact that I don't like seeing sailing ships in the modern era, I still build lots of them. I also often do my darndest to start England on an island, restart, restart, restart.... These unitscan wipe clean an ocean when they appear. Even after obsolescence, don't just kamikaze them into more modern ships because of their archaic appearance. With a 2 troop carrying capacity, load them down w/ marines and think of them as troop landing task forces.

The upping of uu's in power has, as you can see some interesting results, and in general the AI seems to adjust well. Makes early non uu civs a real challenge, esp. the militaristic Germans, who are just chomping at the bit to go get some, but not an insurmountable one. Build smart, deploy smart and be patient. I try to get the tech edge in military, if possible, and I try to get to cavalry, the great equalizer, as soon as possible. Armies really even the odds. If I'm waiting for a uu, I try to plan periods of viscious aggression for their arrival en masse by switching govs and otherwise preparing. Its an awful waste to not get that golden age for successful use of your uu in combat.

Last edited by bigvic on 19-04-2002 at 22:28

	19-04-2002 22:16									#46
	Support Apolyton, buy GURPS/ Alpha Centauri

Yeah, we're back up! Now what about 1.21f? Damn, got a couple of long, developed games going, think I'll finish them and lurk around, scoping out the commentary on 1.21f before getting back up on that patch horse again. I look forward to working with it, if it works. I guess I'll have to redo all my mod (I've downloaded the patches and uninstalled the game to retore default settings twice now - twice too often)