25-04-2002 00:24									#31
	MP possibilties Support Apolyton, buy Civilization III: Complete

I was just wondering if you were considering a possible MP version of the events. I like the scenario but think it would be a bit tough as is for a PBEM with the constant warfare and all.

	25-04-2002 01:09									#32
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quote: Originally posted by BeBro Shaka Naldur, if you have ships, you can trade (as Franks) with North Africa. As Germans, it is even easier if you conquer Southern Italy ASAP, then you can also trade effectively with Byzantium.

not yet, i don´t think i´m going to go for the tech tree,

what techs do you recomend me??

how can i use the village units to get some profit as you said in the readme??

	27-04-2002 14:50									#33
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quote: Originally posted by Shaka Naldur what techs do you recomend me?? how can i use the village units to get some profit as you said in the readme??

Techs: first better government (dukedome) and better units, then it depends - some go for the big siege engines first, others prefer going for trade.

Villages: some of them are in the right locations for new cities. So if you found a city directly on their places use them to rush something...

	28-04-2002 21:52									#34
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quote: Originally posted by BeBro Villages: some of them are in the right locations for new cities. So if you found a city directly on their places use them to rush something...

that´s a good idea, but because there were villages there i didn´t build the cities

	28-04-2002 22:00									#35
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Well, I don´t see city founding on their locations as cheating, if that´s what you thought.

The villages have two functions, you lose money when they get destroyed, but to balance this out you can use them for rushbuying, when you found cities on that places - I did this to give the player some reasons to protect them from attacks (like a medieval ruler would try to protect his realm)

	29-04-2002 00:34									#36
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I experience problems when I'm dowloading it. Each time I get to some 20% of dowload, it turns itself off?

	29-04-2002 01:16									#37
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Just tested it, it worked. But sometimes the game network which hosts my site has some technical trouble, maybe this was the case when you tried it...

	29-04-2002 02:24									#38
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Or perhaps You have some black list out there...

	30-04-2002 03:31									#39
	Support Apolyton or Terrorists Win

Is there some other place except for Bernd's site where I can find his game (updated CaC that is)

	30-04-2002 03:34									#40
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http://www.civfanatics.com/civ2scenmed.shtml

May be I should send it to some others too...

	30-04-2002 19:12									#41
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Thanks. Downloaded it finally. Play as England, just a few turns.

	04-05-2002 01:10									#42
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I´ve already conquered all the scenarios,
I finished it around 1158 so i didn´t upload the third set of events, and i was a little upset while conquering the cities nothing happen
playing as the franks, once you are organised conquering the saracens and the muslims is very easy,
I don´t know what to do to make it more harder, the threbuchet is very powerfull and the cities are very close, so it´s hard for the ai to do a good job,
making the byzantines and the arabs units cheaper...

i´ve had a lot of fun, and i like it more than the first version, and i really like the 1.0 version

I´ll post a few screenshots afterwards

	04-05-2002 01:48									#43
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I played just a copule of turns, as English.
I can say that the French are no much for me, and they were strong, stronger than Germans
it seems.

Hm... map is much better than in the first version, but still it's not perfect. Not only when it comes to map itself, but also city location. Krolewiec (Koenigsberg) Warsaw and Toru? (Thorn) didn't exist at the time at all. I mind German names used for Polish cities too, as Ukrainian Kiev and byelorussian Mi?sk are in original spelling.
Eastern border of BE isn't fully accurate I think. Western too. City sizes of Byzantine cities aren't accurate. it's also not accurate tio give Branibor (Brandenburg) to the Germans. Not minding it's in wrong place.
The same as in the first version, I dislike those mountains, they don't fit other terrains by colour and anything else, I don't like hills to, but can stand them.
Still I don't like civilisations chosen. Why Ajjubides not Fatimides? Why not Abbasids in Iraq?
Robber barons and vikings in Normanidia are too strong, but it counterweighs weakness of my civ enemies, so it's OK.

	04-05-2002 15:54									#44
	Thanks for the feedback... Full PM-box? Change here!

Shaka:

quote: I´ve already conquered all the scenarios, I finished it around 1158 so i didn´t upload the third set of events, and i was a little upset while conquering the cities nothing happen playing as the franks, once you are organised conquering the saracens and the muslims is very easy, I don´t know what to do to make it more harder, the threbuchet is very powerfull and the cities are very close, so it´s hard for the ai to do a good job, making the byzantines and the arabs units cheaper... i´ve had a lot of fun, and i like it more than the first version, and i really like the 1.0 version I´ll post a few screenshots afterwards

Ah, it seems it is still too easy, it is a pity that you could finish it so soon (or you are too good ). I could try to make research slower. Now it is 30/10, I could try 40/10 or 50/10. Or I could give the trebuchet tech only away later (via events), but I have to think about that carefully. Perhaps I should also make improvements more expensive to slow down the general progress...

What was your main strategy? Did you concentrate on researching siege engines, or trade etc...?

Maciej:

quote: Hm... map is much better than in the first version, but still it's not perfect. Not only when it comes to map itself, but also city location. Krolewiec (Koenigsberg) Warsaw and Toru? (Thorn) didn't exist at the time at all. I mind German names used for Polish cities too, as Ukrainian Kiev and byelorussian Mi?sk are in original spelling. ... Still I don't like civilisations chosen. Why Ajjubides not Fatimides? Why not Abbasids in Iraq?

Well, several cities that are on the map did not exist when the scn starts (even Cairo was founded later). Since the AI is absolutely unable to build them on their correct location, I included them. It is much better for the game than leaving them out completely, and most of them are hidden behind the "fog of war" in the beginning.

Same goes for the civs, the Arab civs simply changed too much during that period (even Almohads is not correct for the beginning) and I had only two civs left. Beginning with Fatimids (instead of Aijubides) would mean that they still run the middle east when the scn ends - this is as inaccurate than any other choice...

	04-05-2002 17:53									#45
	Increase Your PM Length

Still I think other choices would be better.
When it comes to Cairo, Fustat can play role of it. Anyway that's a matter of a few years.
In fact I had some idea to be used in such moments. But only for human players, it wouldn't work for AI.

Anyway why did You use name of dinasty
if it can't be proper? Wouldn't it be enough to
name it just "Egypt"? I did that in Komnenai
of the same reasons and I think it is the best choice. Of course it is. It is mine!

	04-05-2002 18:15									#46
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Yeah, but only "Egypt" for a civ that rules also in the Holy Land seems incorrect as well...Perhaps "Moors" and "Arabs" to be more general...

	04-05-2002 18:35									#47
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quote: Originally posted by BeBro What was your main strategy? Did you concentrate on researching siege engines, or trade etc...?

my main strategy was to concentrate in siege engines once i had libraries, I haven´t discovered a lot of techs....

making the ai units cheaper... ( ialways say that but nobody seems to listen to me )

if you make the tech slower it will be quite boring, is not very hard to build up the empire, and once is done there is nothing more to do but go on to conquer foreign nations

	04-05-2002 19:48									#48
	Re: Re: Thanks for the feedback... Help yourself to an AD-FREE life

quote: Originally posted by Shaka Naldur making the ai units cheaper... ( ialways say that but nobody seems to listen to me )

I´m listening

I´m wondering, do you think the AI has not enough attacker units? In my games especially the Moors and Byzantines had hordes of cavalry, they attacked me constantly, therefore I made their units slightly more expensive. Or do you mean the Europeans?

	04-05-2002 21:41									#49
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"Yeah, but only "Egypt" for a civ that rules also in the Holy Land seems incorrect as well...Perhaps "Moors" and "Arabs" to be more general...

I disagree .
Palestine was always Egyptian sphere of influence through history. Anyway can't Egypt
have some lands except for main Egypt? The same good You can say You can't call Britain Britain as it has (had) lands in all the world.
Name Moors is obviously incorrect, as it rather a name for North-West Africans. I know that Fatimid state was founded there, but it origins in other lands anyway. Arabs isn't all that good name too. the other moslem civ would be not much less Arabic, and arabisation
of that area wasn't full back then.

	04-05-2002 22:46									#50
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Nah, I meant Moors instead of Almohads, Arabs instead of Aijubides - but both terms are not accurate as well (and weren´t meant sooo seriously )

BTW, Fatimid rule over Egypt started in 969, not 955, (when the scn starts) so it would also be incorrect. Absolutely correct would be Abbasids, but that seems stupid, since they were replaced so soon by the Fatimids.

Well, I think we can debate that for weeks, but since Civ2 does not allow changes for the civ names during the game (IMO the only way to make it absolutely accurate), you always have to compromise in that field...

	05-05-2002 00:14									#51
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Oh yes dumb me. I forgot in which year the scn starts, but when You told that Al-Qahira
wasn't found yet, obviously I should have guessed it was before Fatimids conquered Egypt.

No compromise! Do as I wish!

P.S.
w's.w.t.m.o.y.t.y.w.s.t.w.t.m.a.d.n?
Decode that -quite simple- abbreviaton now.

	05-05-2002 01:04									#52
	Avatar Enlargement: We've got the solution

What's what to me or you to you what something to me and dumb now?

	05-05-2002 04:15									#53
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quote: Originally posted by Heresson P.S. w's.w.t.m.o.y.t.y.w.s.t.w.t.m.a.d.n? Decode that -quite simple- abbreviaton now.

You overestimate my amount of free time, Maciej...

	05-05-2002 04:20									#54
	Remove this text

No. Some words correct though.
And You reminded me one nice song...
"All at once I can see what we do, me into me, and You into You..."

What's, you, to , me ,and



what, to, me, or, you, to what something dumb now?

	05-05-2002 22:49									#55
	Get a bigger avatar today!

quote: I´m wondering, do you think the AI has not enough attacker units? In my games especially the Moors and Byzantines had hordes of cavalry, they attacked me constantly, therefore I made their units slightly more expensive. Or do you mean the Europeans?

the byzantines were ok, I conquered Bizantium and they kept attacking me turn after turn, I never lost the city anyways
but i went straight from Tunis to the city and I didn´t have any problems,
the byzantines need more ships, you should make something to make impossible to just conquer byzantium with three ships

I had not a single problem conquering the arabs,
and conquering the actual israeli territory it was just a walk over
they didn´t have a lot of units, the ships were something to worry about but once I put a pikemen in every city the problem was over,
why don´t you try putting more defensive units in the special cities,

you could also put air units with movement range one in the most important cities,
take a look at Alex´s peloponessian war scn

	06-05-2002 01:01									#56
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Thanks for the feedback, these are good ideas. I hope I can work on a slightly updated version soon to make it more challenging.

	06-05-2002 12:14									#57
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Its a little disheartening hearing all this about it being a walkover. Makes me realise that I just plain suck.

	08-05-2002 23:43									#58
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quote: Originally posted by ravagon Its a little disheartening hearing all this about it being a walkover. Makes me realise that I just plain suck.

go straight for trebuchets and don´t attack any civ until you have them, is not a big deal...

	08-05-2002 23:44									#59
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quote: Thanks for the feedback, these are good ideas. I hope I can work on a slightly updated version soon to make it more challenging.

I´ll be honoured to playtest it
if you need somebody to do that of course..

	09-05-2002 18:35									#60
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oh yes,. I've forgotten about it. I find 2 moves of (almost) any artillery not quite accurate.