21-04-2002 18:37									#211
	Re: Reinstall Check Full PM-box? Change here!

quote: Originally posted by TheEmerged Okay, the possibility exists that I'm missing something, but as I run it through the "issues I care about" checker... I'm just not impressed. 1> Incomplete information about prospect of creating specific starting locations in editor 2> No mention of mini-map in editor 3> No mention of flat map creation 4> No mention of ability to increase/decrease availability of resources 5> Insufficient corruption fixes -- fixing on the back end instead of the front end 6> No mention of correction for corruption problems on huge maps 7> No mention of ability to put starting units on the map in editor Bottom Line: Chance that this patch will result in Civ3 being reinstalled in my computer is negligible. Email me when they get around to fixing the game

and we care why?

	21-04-2002 20:00									#212
	When?? Avatar Enlargement: We've got the solution

are you folks going to accept that the software community uses your retail dollars to produce beta - and sometimes alpha - products, knowing full well that the buying public has absolutely no self-control, patience, or the will power to demand otherwise?

I work in that community. I know. If you just come to terms with this - whether you do or do not exhibit real discretionary purchasing power, but as long as you know and accept it - you will feel much better about your hard-earned (well, most of you work hard) $$$'s and how they are spent.

You leave the barn door open for these companies constantly and then blame them when they utilize the inherent greed built into capitalism to give you less for more.

	22-04-2002 00:14									#213
	Tired of ads?

I think anyone who has taken five minutes to look at the civ3mod.bic file has found out that numerous things like pollution and corruption could be worked around on the various tabs with the menu item - Edit Rules.

I think a lot of things can be changed, except maybe starting positions, but still there is something in the readme file included with version 1.21f that mentions even that.
The civ3mod.bic file is 2kb larger than previous versions.

	22-04-2002 03:50									#214
	Support Apolyton, buy Galactic Civilizations

Alrighty,

You are dead on. People buy the product willingly...knowing it won't be perfect. If you want perfect software, you will have to either pay more or have less diversity of products.

	22-04-2002 03:51									#215
	Suffering from ads?

maybe the inability to fix starting locations IS DELIBERATE. Like having MP disabled in Civ2. It's saved for the expansion.

	22-04-2002 05:00									#216
	Suffering from ads?

I think there is no maybe about it. Of course they are doing it deliberately. Why give it to us when they can charge us twice for the same feature?

	22-04-2002 05:18									#217
	Increase Your PM Length

quote: Originally posted by Oerdin I think there is no maybe about it. Of course they are doing it deliberately. Why give it to us when they can charge us twice for the same feature?

Exactly.

Same with scenario-building, and so many features we want.

We've already spent $50 to spend months beta testing Civ 3 for Firaxis.

Pigs will be flying over hell before I give them any more money for a Civ 3 product. They owe ME a rebate.

	22-04-2002 05:24									#218
	Suffering from ads?

quote: Originally posted by Coracle Exactly. Same with scenario-building, and so many features we want. We've already spent $50 to spend months beta testing Civ 3 for Firaxis. Pigs will be flying over hell before I give them any more money for a Civ 3 product. They owe ME a rebate.

Why is it a suprise that they would release an XP?

They did it with Civ1, Civ2, and SMAC

So why be so uptight about Civ3. Its clear that this is the MO of Firaxis and predecessors.

	24-04-2002 06:46									#219
	Cultural Expansion Says the Fair Young Maiden? (Not C.B, of course) Support Apolyton, buy Civilization 2

Barnacle Bill (Great name) I agree with you that it's very positive that Firaxis is working on these patches. Even if they're working on an XP that's better than the treatment we got from Activision when they abandoned their product. 2 other pts.:
1. " Borders move around due to culture & cities being founded. This is unrealistic - the US can't grab a chunk of Canada by building a city just this side of the border." Depends on when this happens... Nowadays maybe not, but I'm trying to start the Oregon Liberation Front to get Oregon and Washington back. We lost them to heavy U.S. settlement - and bad decisions by the Hudson's Bay Company IIRC. (GWizz has a great RRT2 "Oregon and Empire" scenario). Not to mention Texas...
2. Proposed - "Your land units of any type (even non-combat units like settlers/workers) cannot enter a land tile which is in the territory of another civ with which you are not at war...." Mightn't it be easier to have a command - "autorefuse trespass" ("forgive them their trespasses?" = No). I do like to trespass to cross over and explore the other side.

Last edited by Changmai Beagle on 24-04-2002 at 07:00

	24-04-2002 12:57									#220
	Support Apolyton, pre-order Civilization IV

XP's are normally a sign that a game is selling well, not that it is a bad product.

	24-04-2002 13:07									#221
	Enter the AD-FREE zone

quote: Originally posted by AJ Corp. The FAIR Having read all news related to newest patch, I kind of regret that most changes seem to apply to the editor (hardly use it myself, very good for many of others though).

For those of us who do use it, the last patch had us feeling the same way you are now. There was virtually no changes made then. So we're getting ours this time.

I'd still like to see more though. For instance, I noticed that there isn't any unit Anti-Air attribute to go along with the new lethal bombard abilty. They added a flag for a city improvement, but nothing for a unit.

	24-04-2002 13:22									#222
	Support Apolyton

quote: Originally posted by Coracle Exactly. Same with scenario-building, and so many features we want. We've already spent $50 to spend months beta testing Civ 3 for Firaxis. Pigs will be flying over hell before I give them any more money for a Civ 3 product. They owe ME a rebate.

This is getting to be such a feeble argument. As I've put it someplace before, you've probably spent more than $50 for a night on the town, and had nothing to show for it the next day except for a hangover. Aside from getting thrilled by the sight of a sunset, you probably aren't going to find a cheaper source of entertainment. A few months you say. Even at $60 for the game, that's less than a dollar a day to keep yourself amused and occupied. Or do you expect Firaxis to spend a few years working on it just to give it away for nothing.

	24-04-2002 13:23									#223
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization III: Complete

Well said, Willem

	27-04-2002 00:16									#224
	Lose 30 kilos (of popups)

Exactly,

I just spent $6K on property taxes and insurance for my house. $50 is nothing. Although the cheapskate in me is still pissed that I bought it four days after it came out and then say it advertised for $35 three days later....I could have waited that long!

R:PM

	27-04-2002 04:04									#225
	Support Apolyton, buy Alpha Centauri

I bought it and returned it. when the first patch came out, I downloaded it and tried the patch, then removed it. Did the same for this patch. If combat and corruption gets fixed, I'll buy it. although, judging from the current patchtrend, it might already be abandonware by the time these issues are fixed...

Back to playing a good game instead... Hmm, how about MOM?

	27-04-2002 04:12									#226
	Support Apolyton, buy Galactic Civilizations

Oh, I forgot to check one thing before I deleted the game, but judging from Bills comment on the previous page, they still haven't fixed the combat settler issue?

	27-04-2002 06:26									#227
	Support Apolyton

Anybody interested in talking about the patch?

	28-04-2002 14:43									#228
	Support Apolyton, buy Alpha Centauri

oh dear a typical firaxis patch *smile*

they put wonderful things in it, like the adjustable hp's etc etc, but the BASICS of an editor (minimap! - starting locations! - placeable units!) are still - 6 months after release!!! - not included.

I mean, what's up with them? isn't it more difficult to put lethal bombardement inside, than to create a minimap?

don't understand me wrong, I love the new things - but maybe they should focus on the really nescessary things FIRST..

oh and btw: why do they put things inside, NO ONE wanted? Like:

* Game settings are now stored in any save file that uses
them. This prevents players from altering their BIC file and using it in an existing game.

Which makes Modifications more difficult, because you cannot use "try and error" to determine if something works.

After all this patch is nice, but it laks importance.

	28-04-2002 22:55									#229
	Got spare money?

Excuse me, I downloaded and installed the patch but I don't know how to activate these 2 new features : Lethal bombardment and turning off seed number. Combat results are still the same. I still lost a veteran Cavalry to regular Pikeman. Please enlighten me.

	28-04-2002 23:05									#230
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization 2

quote: Originally posted by Gelvan oh and btw: why do they put things inside, NO ONE wanted? Like: * Game settings are now stored in any save file that uses them. This prevents players from altering their BIC file and using it in an existing game. Which makes Modifications more difficult, because you cannot use "try and error" to determine if something works. After all this patch is nice, but it laks importance.

From what I have a LOT of people like the one reason for doing that. MULTIPLAYER. Not that I care, I don't have an interest in multiplayer but this stops cheating by modding the bic that everyone else agreed to play.

From some reason a lot of people actually do cheat in multiplayer. Some seem to think its funny. I suppose it is to the cheater.

	28-04-2002 23:10									#231
	Full PM-box? Change here!

quote: Originally posted by DTRY Excuse me, I downloaded and installed the patch but I don't know how to activate these 2 new features : Lethal bombardment and turning off seed number. Combat results are still the same. I still lost a veteran Cavalry to regular Pikeman. Please enlighten me.

I enlight you!

Pikemen in 7+pop city has 50% city defense bonus. Now add fortify bonus (+25%), and you get 3*1.75=5.25
Now 6 vs 5.75 is much difference.
Right?

P.S.
If city is metropolis (13+pop) it's even worse.
Then defense of pikemen is 1.25*3 = 6.25.

Conclusion: Being killed by pikemen is common thing, but retried will always help you to lower your casulties. (and artillery too)

	28-04-2002 23:21									#232
	Increase Your PM Length

DTRY,
Lethal Bombardment Settings: They are in the Editor, Units tab. Select desired unit (at top), then use Unit Abilities in lower left. Control-Click on Lethal Land (or Sea) Bombardment at the bottom of the scroll list.

Random Seed: It's in the Player Setup screen when you start a new game, last of the radio buttons in the Rules section.

	29-04-2002 06:43									#233
	Support Apolyton, buy GURPS/ Alpha Centauri

So, if I want to disable random seed number I must start a new game? And if I want to use lethal bombardment I must change units in the editor myself and start a new game also? Too bad.

By the way, thanks player1 to display the statistics to me. I was attacking the enemy capital (size 12) , so I have no other question about the loss.

	29-04-2002 21:02									#234
	Got spare money?

hi ,

still no increase in airunits distance , .............
however it was asked in the last chat , and the response was , ....


no comment ,.......

hmmmm , that would be in a while i believe, ............

as for the rest , well , have a nice day

	30-04-2002 02:43									#235
	Enter the AD-FREE zone

@Ethelred
Oh dear. The ones who want to cheat will do it anyway. And btw, what sort of human beings are they? I mean cheating in a multiplayer civ game? what for?

but however, why does firaxis care about some single-minded cheaters? they should care about starting options etc. and NOT about things the players may discuss among each other.

I hate the matter of fact, that modding now is more dificult, because that means to restart everytime from the beginning, if something I planned did not work or produced a crash (luxury...)

So this "preventing players to..." is just ridiculous. Especially if one thinks about all the errors still occuring. The programers should look that they make this game running, and all the things about cheating should NOT care the programmer.

Especially not if that means making moding more complicated!