26-04-2002 02:20									#31
	Support Apolyton buy from Amazon

quote: Originally posted by Immortal Wombat True. *goes to find the Ai files*

thats actually one of the reasons i tried to get into modding this game, at the time i played alot of MP games and i (perhaps foolishly) thought i could gain some advantage by 'knowing' the game inside and out. Didnt work of course, i still got beat plenty. In the end its experience that shows. ill look forward to see how well i fair, its been a long time.
Not sure about the 'score' result, but ill be concentrating on the year i think.

	26-04-2002 05:02									#32
	Browse Apolyton AD-FREE

centrifuge,
Hmm, can't be a language problem then, I have a US version as well... Oh well, as long as the /reloadslic fixes it, it doesn't matter too much...

DeanToth,
Don't worry about installing the mods: the "hassle" isnt too bad but might seem a little overwhelming if you've never done it before. You probably won't understand what the big deal is once you have done it once or twice...

You only need to submit your last turn, not the whole folder. The thought of having to weed through 20x50 (or whatever) savegames alone...

Sorry about the thing with the folder name. I will probably use your suggestion of putting the file into a folder already for next tourny...

Can someone explain to me what's wrong with the dates? They look fine to me... It's roughly 3 weeks: I took one month (23-4 to 23-5) and substracted 7 days. That's a little more than 3 weeks, but that seems wise because there's always some problems with timezones at the beginning and end of such periods. If you want to be safe, make sure you send me the file on the 15th or earlier (regardless of time-zone). I'll be flexible when it comes to files that are sent in on the 16th and 17th (because of the timezones), but the earlier the better of course...

TheArsenal,
Good point about Apolyton Pack, we'll probably go for that next tourny and for MedMod the tourny after that or something...

About knowing the game: yes, I do think modmakers have an advantage over regular players, they (we) understand the game mechannisms quite well and this can help a lot. However, MPers in turn have a considerable advantage over modmakers as they are used to playing much, much stronger opposition...

	26-04-2002 06:17									#33
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization: The Boardgame

So the cut off date is definitely May 16 right?

So as long as I submit my save file by midnight May 16 GMT then I'm fine?

And my other question: when I submit it, this the thread where I attach it right?

I want to add that everyone can call me Dean - - -

Toth is my last name and I use "deantoth" as my login on tons of different forums only for consistency (i can't remember all those logins otherwise).
=========================
Once again I'd like to say that after ALL THIS TIME i am very happy to find an active CTP community!! I have just about gotten sick with Meier-only fanatics who can find no fault with CivIII and think that CTP is just a bastard "copy cat" rather than the proper evolution of the civilization games that it really is.

It is CivIII that is the bastard copy-cat! Take it easy all. (sorry to any civIII lovers who read this....)

	27-04-2002 00:07									#34
	Support Apolyton, buy Galactic Civilizations

There is an enherit weakness with this set up. What is to stop me from playing the game through then restarting, knowing where every civ is as well as the geography, and totally wiping them out? A person could also save before battle and restart if he loses and continue if he wins.
The tournament then becomes a contest of who has the most spare time on his hands.

	27-04-2002 00:27									#35
	Put an end to popups!

quote: Originally posted by Oerdin The tournament then becomes a contest of who has the most spare time on his hands.

Good point, how could it be changed so that this isn't the case? I don't see a decent way to resolve this issue.

	27-04-2002 01:10									#36
	Support Apolyton buy from Amazon

quote: Originally posted by Immortal Wombat The Big Modding Guns on the whole seem to play quite little of the actual game, just mod it. Its the multiplayers such as Oerdin who'll probably do best.

True, most of my playing has been more along the testing aspect. The game I got going now is probably the first time in the last 6 months that I have actually sat down and concentrated on what I am doing.

Besides, I have to balance playing time between CTP2, EU2 and Pharaoh - and with a family, that's kind of hard to do. At this point in time, I'm at about 500 turns, averaging 10-20 turns a night when I do get to play.

I'd get my clocked cleaned in any multi-play.

	27-04-2002 02:04									#37
	Support Apolyton

quote: Originally posted by Oerdin There is an enherit weakness with this set up. What is to stop me from playing the game through then restarting, knowing where every civ is as well as the geography, and totally wiping them out? A person could also save before battle and restart if he loses and continue if he wins. The tournament then becomes a contest of who has the most spare time on his hands.

What stops any of the SLIC programmers from writing some code that gives them a free unit every turn? What stops anyone from entering the scenario editor and cheating that way? What stops programmers from hacking the savegames?

There are many ways to cheat, in CtP2, in Civ3, in any other game (but in CtP2 more than in other games - the one disadvantage of its customizability). That's why this is a casual contest: everyone (implicitly) promises to play fair and we'll take their word for it. There are no prizes to be won except honor, and how much honor is there in a victory accomplished by cheating? These Tournaments are not just about the competion, they are also (maybe even more so) about the fun of comparing your skills with other people's and of (hopefully) discussing strategies and maybe learning from it...

BTW, the savegame trick won't work, the outcome of the same battle will always be the same (same with goody huts and other random events); the CtP2 programmers were smart enough to learn from one of Civ1/2's biggest mistakes in this respect.

	27-04-2002 05:15									#38
	Support Apolyton, buy Call to Power 2

yes, as far as reloading battles and such, I can vouch personally to that fact... I think every great now and then, IF you reload the game a couple turns or more in advance of a battle, then depending on what you do in the surrounding terrain, etc, there MAY be a different outcome to said battle...

Usually, though, the battles come out the same no matter how many times you reload (i've tried). Goody huts - there is no argument... they ALWAYS have the same result!

As far as playing the game once and then replaying it with advance knowledge... well, this can work... but if someone has this much time and drive, then more power to them. (more "call to power" to them? :-)

Anyway, I am about to break the industrial age in my own tourny game and I am kicking butt. I hope all you other tourny players are having as much fun with the un-modded game as I am.

Yes it has the old weaknesses, but this being my first time pitting my game against others, I find an extra tension in every move I make.

I've had CTP1 and 2 since they came out but have never played multiplayer so this is fun for me! (no one else I knew had the game.... so BLESS Apolyton!)

Take it easy.

	28-04-2002 19:02									#39
	Put an end to popups!

Hi All

1) Is there a way of protecting against slavers?? (apart from the abolitionist which is some way in the future to acquire)

2) What do the trumpeting trumpets mean which occur every so often with opposition troops?

3) With this AI how do you stop trade embargos....do you have to negotiate a cease fire with them and how is that done (position of strength? .... after sucessfully attcking them?? It seems that all civs are warlike and at war with Spain.....any help for a newbie would be much appreciated....don't worry I'll still be at the bottom of the ranking!!

Andy in Kuwait

	29-04-2002 02:21									#40
	Support Apolyton buy from Amazon

1) Build City Walls

2) Usually that they have pillage a tile improvement, or pirated a trade route. If its a diplomat they may have created an embassy or something, and if its another non-combat unit, it could be an expulsion. (Those were listed in order of likelihood)

3) er... Build an army, and kick their arses before they have a chance to negotiate peace
(In other words, I don't know)

	29-04-2002 19:28									#41
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization III: Complete

Dean,
Yes, if you reload a game of more than 1 turn ago or fight the battle in a different location, you can indeed can different results. Although these differences are minor, they certainly can make a difference. The difference between 5 killed units and 5 badly damaged units (which can quickly be repaired in a city or fortress) for example (yes, this actually happened to me once when the game crashed shortly after I had won such a Pyrrhus victory and had to reload an old savegame)...

It's good to hear you're having so much fun though

quote: Originally posted by Andyinkuwait 1) Is there a way of protecting against slavers?? (apart from the abolitionist which is some way in the future to acquire)

In addition to what IW said, you can also keep a slaver or some other unconventional unit in your cities. Then you can usually see the enemy slavers coming and expel or even kill them.

quote: 3) With this AI how do you stop trade embargos....do you have to negotiate a cease fire with them and how is that done (position of strength? .... after sucessfully attcking them?? It seems that all civs are warlike and at war with Spain.....any help for a newbie would be much appreciated....don't worry I'll still be at the bottom of the ranking!!

When you're at war with an AI they always embargo you, so yes, you would have to negotiate a cease-fire/peace and usually the embargo should be lifted then. Most of the time, if you conquer a few cities from an AI he'll soon be begging for cease-fire or at least accept one if you offer it...

	02-05-2002 07:27									#42
	tournament completed Got spare money?

one question,do i send the autosave right before the victory or the one right after it?
Francois

	02-05-2002 07:31									#43
	Tired of ads?

I would think the one before, no need to carry on playing.

	03-05-2002 16:11									#44
	Suffering from ads?

fogot to zip the file,here it is
Francois

Attachment: ferdin-span-1882adbeforewin(fgehin@hotmail.com).zip
This has been downloaded 57 time(s).

	04-05-2002 23:31									#45
	Enter the AD-FREE zone

Long ago, I once played a single player game INTO THE GROUND... my nation was so powerful i was just sitting there, hitting the "next turn" button over and over

Finally the game ended with my victory (I didn't even do anything, just had a huge nation at peace with everyone - they all had smiley faces at me)

MY QUESTION IS: does the game always end at the same year? I think it was 2300 or 2500 a.d. when my game ended.

And will the tourny game also end this way? I am at around 2190ad in my game and wonder how I should prioritize my last few centuries.

	05-05-2002 00:23									#46
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization III: Complete

game ends at 2300AD. Person with the highest score wins. Cop out victory

	05-05-2002 00:48									#47
	Remove this text

IW is right for an unmodded game like the tourny game. But of course you can mod the end year of the game like most things in CTP2. Therefore in ApolytonPack and in MedPack2 the end year is 2200 AD of course you will get an early warning in 2200 AD in an unmodded game and in 2100 AD in MedPack and ApolytonPack. I don't know the end year in Cradle and WaW, as far as I know Hex created a lot of victory options I guess with different ending game dates. In GoodMod for the CityMod2 option it is still 2300 AD and I set it back for the Apolyton Pack option to 2300 AD for GoodMod for MedPack2 I left it as it is in MedPack2.

-Martin

	05-05-2002 19:36									#48
	Help Support Apolyton or Terrorists Win

I am an advid Ctp2 player, but a real novice with the Internet. I downloaded the Ctp2 tournament game into my saved games file, but do not know how to open it. Also, if I finish it by May 16th, how to I go about sending it in. Could someone educate me?

Thanks much, Bill Bryan, mnbryan37@yahoo.com

	05-05-2002 20:48									#49
	Support Apolyton, buy GURPS/ Alpha Centauri

Open CTPII as normal, click on load game, there should be a folder (ferdi I think it is called) open this and click on the only file in it. ...... off you go. If this doesn't work copy and paste your downloaded file into the Ferdi folder in your saved games file....then as above...make sure you are using CTPII with the activision patch but no mods.

Andy in Kuwait

	05-05-2002 21:06									#50
	Full PM-box? Change here!

For those interested, I finished my game as well: Diplomatic Victory in 1335 AD. If I have more time later I might try to continue this game for a military conquest and see if I can beat francois with his Bloodlust Victory in 1882 AD... Since I'm the organiser of this feature I don't think my score should count in the official ranking but it's still fun to unofficially participate and compare my result with that of others.

Francois,
Great, congrats on being the very first person ever to complete an Apolyton CtP2 Tournament!

The savegame you attached was just fine, a savegame of right before you actually accomplished your victory. All I had to do was open the game and unload some marines into the last Dutch stronghold Next time though, could you name the last savegame (as well as the zip file you attach to this thread) after your forum login, so savegame "francois" and zip file "francois.zip", this will save me a lot of trouble.

Also, I would like to ask everyone to also mention what kind of victory you accomplished (Diplomatic, Scientific/Gaia, Conquest, Endyear), to avoid misunderstandings (but in this case it was pretty obvious so it was no problem).

Dean,
When you're in such a good position, why wait for the game to finish on it's own? If you have peace with everyone, you could try to get an Alliance with everyone and get a Diplomatic Victory? Or try to accomplish the Scientific Victory by building the Gaia Controller? Your choice of course but just clicking next turn all the time seems a little boring to me (although it will probably ensure a very high score)...

Bill,
The savegame you downloaded is 'zipped', it's stored in a special (compressed) format to make it smaller and thus faster to download. In order to be able to play you need to 'unzip' it. I think some Windows versions have an unzip tool by default. If this is the case, I think you should be able to double-click the file in Explorer and it will do so. If this doesn't work, you should download a program like WinZip from a place like www.downloads.com, you can get a version here. Download and install a program like that and the above trick of double-clicking a file in Explorer should work.

When you want to upload the savegame, you'll have to 'zip' it yourself. With WinZip, you can simply right-click the file in Explorer and select the option 'Add to Zip'. Then, when you press the 'Post Reply' button on this thread, a screen will come up with a number of fields. Right above the 'Submit Reply' button there is an 'Attach file' option. Press the 'Browse...' button and select your file. After writing your reply (which, as mentioned above, should at least mention the type of victory that you accomplished) and hitting the 'Submit Reply' button, your reply will be posted with the zipfile attached to it, as in francois's last post.

Attachment: locutus.zip
This has been downloaded 5 time(s).

	06-05-2002 02:38									#51
	French? What French? Increase Your PM Length

I got no problems with the French. They started annoying me early on, declared war, my hoplites 'n archers trecked labouriously over the glacier and destroyed him.

	06-05-2002 17:22									#52
	Support Apolyton, buy Call to Power 2

quote: Originally posted by Locutus For those interested, I finished my game as well: Diplomatic Victory in 1335 AD. If I have more time later I might try to continue this game for a military conquest and see if I can beat francois with his Bloodlust Victory in 1882 AD... Since I'm the organiser of this feature I don't think my score should count in the official ranking but it's still fun to unofficially participate and compare my result with that of others.

Just out of interest, how many nations were left besides yourself after your victory?
And can i see your game after the tournament?

And erm i dont think anyone asked but did you check the map layout before you decided this was the tournament game? Or as i presume you just took the first one that came out? Not that ive got a problem with the layout at all, just wondering. heh

	06-05-2002 18:15									#53
	Enter the AD-FREE zone

Dale, I think you posted that in the wrong thread... But I agree, the French were history pretty soon in my game as well...

Maquiladora,
There were 3 nations left (which is somewhat unusual since I usually only conquer 1, at most 2 opponents when I go for diplo victory): the Dutch (very weak), English (mediorce) and Maya (relatively strong). I just conquered all the Aggressive Imperialists because they don't listen to diplomacy anyway

You don't have to wait until the end of the tournament as far as I'm concerned. Feel free to download the file I attached to my previous post and have a look at it anytime you want

For this first Tournament I took the first randomly generated map I got (in part so it wouldn't spoil the surprise for myself either) and only changed the participating nations via the cheat menu (without revealing the map, so I had no idea how the distribution among the various continents would be). In future Tournaments I might mess around more with the map and stuff, we'll see about that...

	07-05-2002 03:25									#54
	Increase the size of your Attachments

It was really hard for me to do,but I had to kill my fellow French right away
Francois

	07-05-2002 04:29									#55
	Thanks Support Apolyton

Thanks for the help in getting my downloaded game up and running. I have Windows XP which doesn't seem to have WinZip included. After I un-zip'd I still couldn't get it to play. I had to create an empty Ferdiand game folder, and then move the Colinazation file into that folder before it would play.

I also had the garbage message problem that Centrifuge had, but your fix worked on that, so I'm now up and running.

	07-05-2002 05:51									#56
	Put an end to popups!

Hi everyone:
I've never played to a diplomatic victory.... You have to have a peace treaty with everyone, but the manual says you must keep it for a minimum amount of time.. Can anyone tell me what this minimum time is? The manual is scant.

Oh, and yes, clicking the "next turn" button over and over was not only tedious & boring, but also unsatisfying once I reached 2300AD for the first time. I was doing it as an experiment. (ps- how can this earn me a higher score as you said, Locutus?) However I am now near to 2300 in the tourny game and would like to know if I've mismanaged my time so severely that I can't win a diplomatic victory.

And ... can anyone tell me what scoring bonuses you gain from the various victories? I don't see anything in the manual.

My last gameplay question is: in looking at the scoring panel, I see an item called "games in progress" which of course always says "1" game... what does this mean? How can I have more that ONE game during a game? (actually it says 1x0 which means I get 0 points for each game.... so what would it matter anyway???? great confusion)



Locutus:
(off-topic blabbering follows)

I must take the time to say I really like the forum "engine" you guys use! Following are some but not all of the nerdy/technical reasons I love this forum:

- You can see a review of all previous posts while you type a response
- These previous posts are in REVERSE order (very nice)
- One can attach files to posts
- You can even see how many times someone has downloaded the attachment
- The choices one has of individually replying to older posts (including the "reply with quote" and "email directly")
- RTF/HTML text ability
- The alternating light/dark grey color of sequential posts for contrast and visual clarity
- and finally, I ESPECIALLY love the way a thread will email me when another post has appeared!

As a participant in many online forums, I can vouch for the value of that last one... how often have you posted in an interesting forum only to forget to re-visit it later to see who's responded... or even worse, you forget WHICH thread you've posted in (especially when you post in many threads).

Just wanted to sing my praises to this forum. And if you could pass my compliments to any other administrators, that would be nice.

deantoth@hotmail.com

Last edited by DeanToth on 07-05-2002 at 05:59

	07-05-2002 06:07									#57
	Help yourself to an AD-FREE life

quote: Originally posted by Solver Bah... if the tournament used a mod, I'd give it a go, but this way, no way. The default AI is very easy even on Impossible, and here you can just overwhelm it easily. Moreover, only 6 enemies. Sorry guys .

In the unmodded game, is it not true that LESS enemies equal HARDER enemies? I thought that, due to AI weaknesses, when you have many enemies, they always war with each other and keep each other down. But with fewer enemy AI's in play, they take longer to "find" each other and thus have developed higher scientific advances (at least in the huge maps)

Maybe all these factors cancel out in the long run?? I haven't experimented exhaustively. Any insights from ye forum participants?

	07-05-2002 07:28									#58
	Support Apolyton buy from Amazon

quote: I've never played to a diplomatic victory.... You have to have a peace treaty with everyone, but the manual says you must keep it for a minimum amount of time.. Can anyone tell me what this minimum time is? The manual is scant.

You only have to get every civ to sign an alliance to you. There isnt any period of time you have to keep it for. Lemme have a look in manuel i cant remember if it said that in mine. lol but well you only have to get em to sign the alliance then thats it.

edit- i cocked the quotation up

	07-05-2002 09:13									#59
	Suffering from ads?

cocked the quotation up?

i have no idea what you mean. Put extra blank lines in the text?


Anyway, thanks for the info. I'm gonna try a diplo-victory since I'm out of time for anything else...

Can anyone supply any info on my other queries?


Good luck in the tourny, all.

	07-05-2002 18:06									#60
	Support Apolyton, pre-order Civilization IV

quote: Originally posted by Maquiladora Lemme have a look in manuel i cant remember if it said that in mine. lol but well you only have to get em to sign the alliance then thats it.

Oh Yeah, I forgot to clarify:

the manual does only say you need alliances, but the Great Library's victory description says you need to keep it for a minimum number of turns... just wondering if this is true (or maybe just another editing mistake in the library)